1
00:00:04,740 --> 00:00:08,647
Welcome to "Change & Chill", 
the podcast where we talk about

2
00:00:08,647 --> 00:00:12,175
change, simply. I'm Olivier My, 
and with my guests,

3
00:00:12,175 --> 00:00:16,140
we explore how change can be a 
positive force in our lives.

4
00:00:16,260 --> 00:00:20,099
Inspiring stories with a touch of 
lightness.

5
00:00:23,780 --> 00:00:27,199
In this new episode, 
I have the pleasure of welcoming

6
00:00:27,199 --> 00:00:29,220
Vincent Ertveld. Hi, 
Vincent.

7
00:00:29,340 --> 00:00:31,060
Hi! Thanks for having me.

8
00:00:31,700 --> 00:00:36,588
Today is a very special moment, 
a very special episode because

9
00:00:36,588 --> 00:00:37,900
we are not alone.

10
00:00:38,380 --> 00:00:40,295
And it's the first time I'm doing 
this,

11
00:00:40,295 --> 00:00:42,509
so it's quite impressive—there are 
lights,

12
00:00:42,509 --> 00:00:44,304
there are people smiling after all,

13
00:00:44,304 --> 00:00:45,620
it's great to see. Even...

14
00:00:45,660 --> 00:00:47,340
I'd even say it's a roaring crowd.

15
00:00:47,380 --> 00:00:48,740
It's a roaring crowd, 
right?

16
00:00:51,420 --> 00:00:55,807
And today, we are ultimately going 
to talk about a

17
00:00:55,807 --> 00:00:59,338
passion, a subject close to your 
heart.

18
00:00:59,340 --> 00:01:04,047
And I believe it's teaching, 
at least from what you told me.

19
00:01:04,570 --> 00:01:06,578
And before we get all that started,

20
00:01:06,578 --> 00:01:08,863
could you tell us a bit more about 
who you

21
00:01:08,863 --> 00:01:09,970
are, in a few words?

22
00:01:10,770 --> 00:01:12,861
So, my name is Vincent, 
I'm 48 years old,

23
00:01:12,861 --> 00:01:16,028
two children, I've been happily 
with Nathalie for 21 years,

24
00:01:16,028 --> 00:01:18,165
and... as happy as can be.

25
00:01:18,165 --> 00:01:21,438
I am a teacher at heart, 
by training,

26
00:01:21,438 --> 00:01:25,912
through and through; 
I started teaching primary

27
00:01:25,912 --> 00:01:29,634
school in 2002. In fact, 
I'm still teaching today,

28
00:01:29,634 --> 00:01:32,098
even though I'm no longer 
full-time,

29
00:01:32,098 --> 00:01:36,465
because for a few years now I've 
also had a company where we provide

30
00:01:36,465 --> 00:01:39,166
training and services in No-code 
and AI.

31
00:01:39,210 --> 00:01:41,980
Now, no-code, I know it can be a 
bit obscure sometimes,

32
00:01:41,980 --> 00:01:45,305
but it's basically all the tools 
that allow you to create your own

33
00:01:45,305 --> 00:01:48,845
tool. Meaning that, 
for example—and I think you've all

34
00:01:48,845 --> 00:01:53,045
experienced this—we have tools, 
tools that we buy or subscribe to,

35
00:01:53,045 --> 00:01:56,490
that in the end don't quite deliver 
the service we want.

36
00:01:56,490 --> 00:01:58,812
There's always one feature too 
many, one missing, it's too

37
00:01:58,812 --> 00:02:01,520
complicated, and so on. With 
no-code and AI,

38
00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,800
we are able to recreate our own 
tailor-made tool,

39
00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:06,240
exactly as we need it.

40
00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:10,916
And I help people build these tools 
with them—that's the service

41
00:02:10,916 --> 00:02:15,719
side—but I also help certain people 
become freelancers in this field.

42
00:02:15,920 --> 00:02:19,572
And becoming a freelancer isn't 
just about learning to master the

43
00:02:19,572 --> 00:02:23,492
tools; it's also about unlocking a 
whole part of yourself that doesn't

44
00:02:23,492 --> 00:02:27,080
dare, that feels illegitimate, 
that doesn't know how to go about

45
00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:29,980
it. And that's what my coaching 
focuses on,

46
00:02:29,980 --> 00:02:32,282
and that's why, once again, 
for me,

47
00:02:32,282 --> 00:02:33,950
it is a form of education.

48
00:02:33,950 --> 00:02:36,571
Someone trying to fulfill who they 
are,

49
00:02:36,571 --> 00:02:39,906
whether it's a child at school or 
an adult later on,

50
00:02:39,906 --> 00:02:43,320
is ultimately just seeking personal 
fulfillment.

51
00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,318
Well, thank you for that 
introduction.

52
00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,857
And before we really dive into the 
heart of the matter,

53
00:02:49,857 --> 00:02:52,541
I know you have a passion for the 
number three,

54
00:02:52,541 --> 00:02:54,800
could you tell us a bit more about 
that?

55
00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,030
Yes, everything comes in threes, 
that's obvious.

56
00:02:58,030 --> 00:03:00,322
And if you ever check out or look 
at what I do,

57
00:03:00,322 --> 00:03:02,230
indeed everything comes in threes.

58
00:03:02,230 --> 00:03:04,830
I'm actually very disappointed that 
the stool has four legs;

59
00:03:04,830 --> 00:03:07,070
it's much less stable with four 
legs than with three.

60
00:03:07,590 --> 00:03:11,311
So the number three actually comes 
from my time at university—I'm a

61
00:03:11,311 --> 00:03:13,371
teacher by training, 
as I mentioned,

62
00:03:13,371 --> 00:03:15,828
but originally, I studied law for 
two years.

63
00:03:15,830 --> 00:03:18,678
And I had a legal history professor 
whose course was super structured,

64
00:03:18,678 --> 00:03:21,382
where everything went in threes: 
three sections, three chapters,

65
00:03:21,382 --> 00:03:23,694
three points, and so on. And I 
thought that was great;

66
00:03:23,694 --> 00:03:26,659
it's super clear. And then later, 
during my teacher training,

67
00:03:26,659 --> 00:03:29,851
I learned that between three and 
seven items is indeed the number of

68
00:03:29,851 --> 00:03:31,670
items we can hold in immediate 
memory.

69
00:03:31,710 --> 00:03:35,270
The number three is something that 
works quite well in the brain for

70
00:03:35,270 --> 00:03:37,430
remembering, understanding, 
and so on.

71
00:03:37,470 --> 00:03:40,390
So now, indeed, everything I do, 
I do in threes.

72
00:03:40,430 --> 00:03:43,120
So, for example, 
in the training courses I provide,

73
00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,122
there are three levels of 
difficulty:

74
00:03:45,122 --> 00:03:47,437
tickly, scratchy, 
and crunchy, and so on for

75
00:03:47,437 --> 00:03:48,750
everything else as well.

76
00:03:48,750 --> 00:03:51,101
Right now we provide training on 
three tools:

77
00:03:51,101 --> 00:03:54,750
Notion, Claude, and automations, 
and everything else goes in threes.

78
00:03:54,750 --> 00:03:57,576
I just didn't have three kids, 
but there are still three other

79
00:03:57,576 --> 00:03:59,683
people at home because if I include 
Nathalie,

80
00:03:59,683 --> 00:04:02,012
that makes three, 
and it's a good excuse to say that

81
00:04:02,012 --> 00:04:03,121
I kept it up, even there.

82
00:04:03,890 --> 00:04:05,410
Well, great, thank you.

83
00:04:05,530 --> 00:04:09,042
The topic of teaching is something 
that is extremely interesting in

84
00:04:09,042 --> 00:04:11,875
the world of change, 
because ultimately the podcast is

85
00:04:11,875 --> 00:04:13,169
called "Change & Chill".

86
00:04:13,210 --> 00:04:16,410
So because the main topic is 
change.

87
00:04:16,410 --> 00:04:20,599
For me, it's really this ability to 
move from an idea,

88
00:04:20,599 --> 00:04:23,930
through a decision, 
and then into action.

89
00:04:24,410 --> 00:04:27,563
And chill because, 
of course, we want to be in the

90
00:04:27,563 --> 00:04:29,610
warmest atmosphere possible.

91
00:04:29,650 --> 00:04:31,290
And thanks to you, 
of course.

92
00:04:32,250 --> 00:04:36,905
Teaching is a way of passing on 
knowledge and skills to help people

93
00:04:36,905 --> 00:04:40,205
fulfill their potential in one way 
or another,

94
00:04:40,205 --> 00:04:42,490
just as you were saying earlier.

95
00:04:42,530 --> 00:04:46,527
The question I have is, 
where does that come from for you?

96
00:04:46,530 --> 00:04:51,477
When you were a child, 
was that the job you wanted to do

97
00:04:51,477 --> 00:04:52,489
back then?

98
00:04:52,650 --> 00:04:55,093
I had talked about it with my 
parents at some point,

99
00:04:55,093 --> 00:04:57,829
you know, when you want, 
when you want to become a doctor,

100
00:04:57,829 --> 00:04:59,340
firefighter, police officer.

101
00:04:59,420 --> 00:05:02,192
Teaching was already on the list 
back then,

102
00:05:02,192 --> 00:05:04,656
but I still did two years of law 
school,

103
00:05:04,656 --> 00:05:07,580
so I deviated a bit from that path 
at one point.

104
00:05:07,740 --> 00:05:10,302
Except that, indeed, 
during my two years of law school,

105
00:05:10,302 --> 00:05:12,698
at one point I also started 
coaching kids in soccer.

106
00:05:14,260 --> 00:05:17,297
And I was having much more fun on 
Tuesday nights and Thursday nights

107
00:05:17,297 --> 00:05:19,597
than at university. University was 
great,

108
00:05:19,597 --> 00:05:22,929
law was great intellectually, 
it was truly enriching,

109
00:05:22,929 --> 00:05:26,406
I learned fabulous things there, 
and I met people who were

110
00:05:26,406 --> 00:05:28,217
intellectually incredible.

111
00:05:29,780 --> 00:05:33,366
But I felt better with the kids; 
I felt better in that atmosphere of

112
00:05:33,366 --> 00:05:34,540
helping, of growing.

113
00:05:34,540 --> 00:05:36,656
I went to teacher training college,

114
00:05:36,656 --> 00:05:40,960
after two months—back then we were 
already doing teaching practice—the

115
00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,148
first lesson I gave was on 
intervals,

116
00:05:43,148 --> 00:05:45,265
I remember it like it was 
yesterday,

117
00:05:45,265 --> 00:05:48,583
you get up there and you start and 
you know that this is it,

118
00:05:48,583 --> 00:05:49,780
you know it's right.

119
00:05:49,900 --> 00:05:54,280
And after that, I immediately set 
up a non-profit organization in

120
00:05:54,280 --> 00:05:58,583
2003 with a buddy from teacher 
training college to run workshops

121
00:05:58,583 --> 00:06:01,050
for kids—cooking, 
crafts, and so on.

122
00:06:01,090 --> 00:06:03,778
And then in 2005, 
there was still this idea of doing

123
00:06:03,778 --> 00:06:07,043
something else on the side, 
there was still this idea of being

124
00:06:07,043 --> 00:06:09,286
an entrepreneur, 
of starting a business.

125
00:06:09,290 --> 00:06:11,026
And it turned out that at that 
moment,

126
00:06:11,026 --> 00:06:13,994
I built my first website for a 
company that needed one—they were

127
00:06:13,994 --> 00:06:16,850
friends who lived down the 
street—and I got my first contract

128
00:06:16,850 --> 00:06:19,874
from that, so I registered as a 
secondary self-employed worker,

129
00:06:19,874 --> 00:06:21,890
because you couldn't do it under 
the table.

130
00:06:22,530 --> 00:06:25,037
And then after that I built two or 
three apps,

131
00:06:25,037 --> 00:06:26,730
two or three things like that.

132
00:06:26,850 --> 00:06:29,925
And then there was a lull at one 
point or another,

133
00:06:29,925 --> 00:06:33,538
and I suppose we'll get to that in 
terms of a spark as well,

134
00:06:33,538 --> 00:06:35,610
but then the lockdown happened.

135
00:06:35,970 --> 00:06:37,810
And it turns out that in my 
classroom,

136
00:06:37,810 --> 00:06:40,183
even before the lockdown, 
I had launched Teams,

137
00:06:40,183 --> 00:06:43,148
because I thought it was a pretty 
good tool for chatting with

138
00:06:43,148 --> 00:06:44,927
students, sharing resources, 
etc.

139
00:06:45,490 --> 00:06:49,683
And the lockdown arrived, 
everyone wanted to switch to hybrid

140
00:06:49,683 --> 00:06:54,610
teaching. 99% of people, 
99% of people didn't know how it

141
00:06:54,610 --> 00:06:57,349
worked. So I created a small free 
guide,

142
00:06:57,349 --> 00:07:01,803
I made YouTube videos that were 
heavily promoted by Microsoft back

143
00:07:01,803 --> 00:07:05,705
then, etc. And at the same time, 
I discovered Notion,

144
00:07:05,705 --> 00:07:08,734
so I discovered it, 
I made videos about those tools,

145
00:07:08,734 --> 00:07:11,834
which immediately caused the view 
count to explode.

146
00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:14,379
And on top of that, 
I realized that I could genuinely

147
00:07:14,379 --> 00:07:16,235
help people, and that I could help 
them,

148
00:07:16,235 --> 00:07:19,161
once again, find their way in a 
world where suddenly no one knew

149
00:07:19,161 --> 00:07:20,398
where they stood anymore.

150
00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:23,284
Hence the fact that the YouTube 
channel,

151
00:07:23,284 --> 00:07:25,778
which was initially more of a 
travel YouTube channel,

152
00:07:25,778 --> 00:07:28,338
etc. Completely pivoted toward 
tools,

153
00:07:28,338 --> 00:07:31,160
and then a little later, 
going freelance.

154
00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,298
I'm going to ask you the question 
again, because you answered a

155
00:07:34,298 --> 00:07:35,680
different question, 
but that's very good

156
00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:36,320
Not bad

157
00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:37,040
It's very good.

158
00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:38,680
A politician, maybe?

159
00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:39,920
That's my friend.

160
00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:44,292
Indeed. So that's already great, 
that way we also have a quick

161
00:07:44,292 --> 00:07:46,240
overview of your entire background.

162
00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:50,129
We're going to go back over it at a 
slightly slower pace,

163
00:07:50,129 --> 00:07:53,138
I'd say. But you were saying that 
you told your parents,

164
00:07:53,138 --> 00:07:55,680
"There's a list of professions, 
and on this list,

165
00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:57,850
there's teacher" (Vincent Ertveld: 
Mm).

166
00:07:57,930 --> 00:08:01,108
At least that's what I have in mind 
(Vincent Ertveld: Yes, yes). What

167
00:08:01,108 --> 00:08:04,970
made you want to put "Teachers" on 
that list?

168
00:08:05,570 --> 00:08:10,191
Oh boy. I'm not sure that, 
I'm not sure we know

169
00:08:10,191 --> 00:08:13,287
exactly, well I'm not sure I know 
exactly.

170
00:08:14,090 --> 00:08:17,087
But it was clear right from the 
start that I was good with kids,

171
00:08:17,087 --> 00:08:18,969
that I was good at helping others, 
etc.

172
00:08:18,970 --> 00:08:20,022
So that idea was definitely there 
(Olivier My: But I mean when you're

173
00:08:20,022 --> 00:08:21,476
a child). And yet, 
for example...

174
00:08:21,476 --> 00:08:22,689
Yes, yes, even still as a child...

175
00:08:22,850 --> 00:08:24,127
You were good with kids while being 
a child yourself.

176
00:08:24,250 --> 00:08:26,170
Yeah, even the other younger kids 
(Olivier My: OK), I took care of

177
00:08:26,170 --> 00:08:28,161
them, etc. So, like, 
I was twelve years old,

178
00:08:28,161 --> 00:08:31,061
I took care of the three-year-olds 
who were in the family,

179
00:08:31,061 --> 00:08:32,330
in the friend group, 
etc.

180
00:08:32,610 --> 00:08:35,627
So I think it was still always 
inside me somewhere,

181
00:08:35,627 --> 00:08:39,002
and yet, for example, 
it never would have—it never would

182
00:08:39,002 --> 00:08:41,301
have crossed my mind to become a 
nurse,

183
00:08:41,301 --> 00:08:43,489
for example. That wouldn't have 
been my world,

184
00:08:43,489 --> 00:08:45,547
that wouldn't have been my style. 
But then,

185
00:08:45,547 --> 00:08:46,930
why exactly? I have no idea.

186
00:08:46,930 --> 00:08:49,340
But on the other hand, 
the moment I stood in front of that

187
00:08:49,340 --> 00:08:50,859
class and I... - 
Snapping fingers -

188
00:08:50,859 --> 00:08:53,270
Right then, it clicked, 
and you know at that moment that

189
00:08:53,270 --> 00:08:58,177
that's it. And I realized even 
later that whenever I strayed from

190
00:08:58,177 --> 00:09:02,300
that path, too far, 
it wasn't what I wanted anymore.

191
00:09:02,620 --> 00:09:05,947
And so yeah, I still always came 
back to teaching,

192
00:09:05,947 --> 00:09:08,299
to sharing knowledge, 
to helping.

193
00:09:08,340 --> 00:09:10,096
Because passing things on, 
actually,

194
00:09:10,096 --> 00:09:11,742
as a teacher, isn't really the 
goal,

195
00:09:11,742 --> 00:09:13,499
the goal isn't pouring out 
knowledge,

196
00:09:13,499 --> 00:09:15,420
but the goal is to guide toward 
something.

197
00:09:17,060 --> 00:09:18,989
Yeah, I think even in the family, 
indeed,

198
00:09:18,989 --> 00:09:21,371
I always took care of the kids, I 
always took care of

199
00:09:21,371 --> 00:09:22,499
the younger ones. So there you go.

200
00:09:22,660 --> 00:09:24,493
In the beginning, 
at least, there was an intuition

201
00:09:24,493 --> 00:09:25,978
that was confirmed along the way 
anyway.

202
00:09:26,020 --> 00:09:28,734
My parents were the ones who told 
me that at one point or another,

203
00:09:28,734 --> 00:09:31,192
we were at the table and I could 
clearly feel that with law,

204
00:09:31,192 --> 00:09:32,779
I wasn't—I wasn't going to 
continue.

205
00:09:33,100 --> 00:09:35,055
He told me, "Well, 
why not?". And my father wasn't

206
00:09:35,055 --> 00:09:38,342
necessarily in favor because he 
thought I could do other things,

207
00:09:38,342 --> 00:09:40,775
he thought maybe there were other 
fields where,

208
00:09:40,775 --> 00:09:43,689
etc. Anyway, that was it, 
I went off to teacher training

209
00:09:43,689 --> 00:09:46,818
college, and there's nothing to 
regret on that front at all!

210
00:09:46,900 --> 00:09:49,984
We'll—we'll come back to that 
because I'm interested in what

211
00:09:49,984 --> 00:09:52,039
caused the deviation at a certain 
point.

212
00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:56,498
So you have that little spark, 
at least as a child,

213
00:09:56,498 --> 00:09:59,438
you know you take care of others 
too.

214
00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:01,880
But for you at school, 
what was it like?

215
00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,025
The whole first part, 
way too easy,

216
00:10:06,025 --> 00:10:07,280
to put it that way.

217
00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:09,484
That is to say, I had always been 
the quiet,

218
00:10:09,484 --> 00:10:12,520
good student who got good marks, 
even more than enough marks.

219
00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:16,519
Up until eleventh grade; 
in eleventh grade,

220
00:10:16,519 --> 00:10:21,213
I had my Dark Side phase where I 
repeated eleventh grade because of

221
00:10:21,213 --> 00:10:24,742
doing nothing. And then I gave all 
the teachers a really hard time

222
00:10:24,742 --> 00:10:26,589
during that second year in eleventh 
grade,

223
00:10:26,589 --> 00:10:28,384
because I was even more bored than 
before,

224
00:10:28,384 --> 00:10:29,717
and I made it much more obvious.

225
00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:33,320
I even went and taught the class in 
place of the English teacher,

226
00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,088
since she asked me if I wanted to 
teach instead of her and I

227
00:10:36,088 --> 00:10:37,440
unfortunately said "Yes".

228
00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:39,850
Which wasn't necessarily the 
smartest thing to do,

229
00:10:39,850 --> 00:10:42,879
but well, why ask a question when 
you don't want to hear the answer?

230
00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:48,380
And so yeah, the end of secondary 
school was maybe a bit darker,

231
00:10:48,380 --> 00:10:49,730
let's put it that way.

232
00:10:49,770 --> 00:10:52,934
So do you look back on it as a 
rather positive experience,

233
00:10:52,934 --> 00:10:54,010
or something else?

234
00:10:54,450 --> 00:10:57,530
Even now, I believe that primary 
school is real school.

235
00:10:57,530 --> 00:11:00,342
It's the true moment of passing on 
knowledge,

236
00:11:00,342 --> 00:11:01,970
transition, and support.

237
00:11:01,970 --> 00:11:05,061
I am much less convinced by 
secondary education,

238
00:11:05,061 --> 00:11:08,756
by what is done with students, 
and by the perception people

239
00:11:08,756 --> 00:11:11,770
sometimes have of certain 
educational tracks.

240
00:11:11,770 --> 00:11:14,337
But yes, primary education remains

241
00:11:14,337 --> 00:11:15,449
my thing, 150%.

242
00:11:15,530 --> 00:11:17,650
So could you tell us a bit more 
about that? What is it, in your

243
00:11:17,650 --> 00:11:20,640
opinion, that makes primary school 
truly the school of life,

244
00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:22,398
so to speak (Vincent Ertveld: 
Yeah,

245
00:11:22,398 --> 00:11:24,450
yeah), and secondary school a bit 
less so?

246
00:11:24,690 --> 00:11:26,997
It's that everything we do in 
primary school is real life,

247
00:11:26,997 --> 00:11:30,075
meaning that math in primary school 
is real life. You play with words,

248
00:11:30,075 --> 00:11:33,450
you play with measurements that are 
real-life measurements.

249
00:11:33,450 --> 00:11:35,301
Whereas when you go to secondary 
school,

250
00:11:35,301 --> 00:11:38,023
you move into the abstract, 
for example in math with vectors

251
00:11:38,023 --> 00:11:40,581
and things like that; 
it's not that it's uninteresting,

252
00:11:40,581 --> 00:11:41,610
but it's not concrete.

253
00:11:41,690 --> 00:11:45,518
And I love hands-on work, 
doing the actual thing with

254
00:11:45,518 --> 00:11:49,433
students in class, 
seeing their eyes light up and say,

255
00:11:49,433 --> 00:11:51,520
"Wow, what just happened?".

256
00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,831
Besides, next year, 
I'm doing almost exclusively

257
00:11:54,831 --> 00:11:57,536
science next year, 
precisely because of the

258
00:11:57,536 --> 00:12:00,825
experimentation, the discovery, 
specifically the:

259
00:12:00,825 --> 00:12:03,163
"Oh incredible, what just 
happened",

260
00:12:03,163 --> 00:12:04,916
and that fuels me too in a way.

261
00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,795
And whether it's with children or 
adults,

262
00:12:07,795 --> 00:12:12,250
in both cases, you can feel when 
the person in front of you suddenly

263
00:12:12,250 --> 00:12:14,194
gets that spark, 
that click.

264
00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:18,360
And I know you keep pressing me to 
tell you what my spark was and I

265
00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:22,600
haven't necessarily found it, 
or at least I didn't necessarily

266
00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:25,800
feel it back then, 
but as an adult I truly realize

267
00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,520
that moment when all of a sudden 
there is -

268
00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:32,440
Finger snap - that thing that 
happens and you suddenly see,

269
00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:34,920
yeah, "Oh wait, no way", 
"Yes, way!".

270
00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,179
And so yeah, that's really a 
thrill,

271
00:12:37,179 --> 00:12:39,906
it's still a blast, 
whether with children or adults for

272
00:12:39,906 --> 00:12:42,040
that matter, it works pretty much 
the same.

273
00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:46,388
And precisely, you went through 
primary school and then secondary

274
00:12:46,388 --> 00:12:49,876
school, just as you described it, 
and the question I had was:

275
00:12:49,876 --> 00:12:52,387
was there a teacher, 
other than the law one,

276
00:12:52,387 --> 00:12:56,226
who either left a strong enough 
negative impression on you to make

277
00:12:56,226 --> 00:12:58,389
you say "That's not what I want to 
do",

278
00:12:58,389 --> 00:13:01,809
or a strong enough positive 
impression to make you say "Ah,

279
00:13:01,809 --> 00:13:04,741
there's something behind this that 
speaks to me".

280
00:13:04,750 --> 00:13:07,388
I don't hold on to the negative, 
there's no point because (Olivier

281
00:13:07,388 --> 00:13:10,074
My: Ok) people who aren't talented 
inevitably can't bring you much

282
00:13:10,074 --> 00:13:12,221
(Olivier My: Ok). But I remember 
Mr.

283
00:13:12,221 --> 00:13:15,002
Vincent, that was actually his last 
name,

284
00:13:15,002 --> 00:13:18,020
and Mr. Vincent must have been 1 
meter 60 tall,

285
00:13:18,020 --> 00:13:21,355
and yet he was with kids, 
we were all 1 meter 70 to 80,

286
00:13:21,355 --> 00:13:22,625
well, there you go.

287
00:13:23,310 --> 00:13:25,879
And he would sit on the desk, 
his feet didn't touch the floor,

288
00:13:25,879 --> 00:13:27,987
so his feet were dangling like that 
and swinging,

289
00:13:27,987 --> 00:13:29,630
and there wasn't a sound in that 
class.

290
00:13:29,670 --> 00:13:32,050
So the guy was there, 
completely composed,

291
00:13:32,050 --> 00:13:34,827
teaching Dutch or English, 
depending on the year.

292
00:13:35,710 --> 00:13:38,197
And he didn't have to do anything 
just to be there,

293
00:13:38,197 --> 00:13:40,018
teach his class, 
pass on knowledge,

294
00:13:40,018 --> 00:13:42,143
command respect, 
get his message across,

295
00:13:42,143 --> 00:13:46,079
and so on. Whereas we had others 
who were obsessed with control,

296
00:13:46,079 --> 00:13:49,414
so you felt there was a fear of 
losing control in them,

297
00:13:49,414 --> 00:13:51,838
and those ones didn't get any 
respect.

298
00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:56,174
And there's definitely a lesson to 
learn there about how you don't

299
00:13:56,174 --> 00:13:58,471
need to be dominant to have 
control,

300
00:13:58,471 --> 00:14:02,453
you don't need to rely on fear or 
place yourself above others to

301
00:14:02,453 --> 00:14:03,755
inspire something.

302
00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:08,042
And him, with his modest 1 meter 60 
and his feet dangling under his

303
00:14:08,042 --> 00:14:11,400
desk, nothing stirred in class, 
it was naturally...

304
00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:13,828
Everything was, everything was 
super smooth, everything was super

305
00:14:13,828 --> 00:14:17,347
calm. Whereas with others, 
it just doesn't click,

306
00:14:17,347 --> 00:14:19,320
for whatever good or bad reason.

307
00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:21,840
And for me, it's mostly that fear 
of losing control.

308
00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:25,055
And in, in water stories too, 
there's something to that:

309
00:14:25,055 --> 00:14:28,094
the moment you try to control 
something a bit too much,

310
00:14:28,094 --> 00:14:30,187
it ends up giving way sooner or 
later,

311
00:14:30,187 --> 00:14:31,600
the dam ends up bursting.

312
00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:34,688
And in our lives too, 
I think that if you try to go in a

313
00:14:34,688 --> 00:14:37,878
direction that isn't yours, 
it will always end up falling apart

314
00:14:37,878 --> 00:14:41,027
at some point. And that doesn't 
mean it's necessarily a straight

315
00:14:41,027 --> 00:14:43,756
line; it still means it'll shift a 
bit to the left or right,

316
00:14:43,756 --> 00:14:45,464
but if you try to go against the 
flow,

317
00:14:45,464 --> 00:14:47,522
it just can't work. If that isn't a

318
00:14:47,522 --> 00:14:48,810
reference to the book, boy!

319
00:14:49,250 --> 00:14:52,357
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much 
for that,

320
00:14:52,357 --> 00:14:54,210
my first advocate.

321
00:14:55,930 --> 00:14:58,683
And specifically that person, 
so you—you remember him?

322
00:14:58,683 --> 00:14:59,973
(Vincent Ertveld: 
Yeah).

323
00:14:59,973 --> 00:15:02,728
Was there anyone else, 
or is he mainly the person who left

324
00:15:02,728 --> 00:15:05,774
a mark on you, regarding the 
relationship you can have between

325
00:15:05,774 --> 00:15:07,530
teachers and learners or students?

326
00:15:07,570 --> 00:15:10,006
He's probably the best example, 
because frankly,

327
00:15:10,006 --> 00:15:12,848
once again, it's not like the guy 
was physically imposing.

328
00:15:12,930 --> 00:15:15,476
It's not like his subject was what 
everyone dreamed of;

329
00:15:15,476 --> 00:15:18,079
I'd say Dutch around here, 
there's a whole segment of the

330
00:15:18,079 --> 00:15:20,570
population that really doesn't want 
to hear about it.

331
00:15:20,570 --> 00:15:22,130
I don't know, that seemed to 
resonate with the audience there.

332
00:15:22,170 --> 00:15:24,170
There were a few reactions.

333
00:15:24,210 --> 00:15:27,173
And yet, once again, 
with him, it was solid,

334
00:15:27,173 --> 00:15:29,970
it was good, it was simple to 
understand.

335
00:15:29,970 --> 00:15:32,462
He had metaphors for just about 
everything,

336
00:15:32,462 --> 00:15:34,684
he had a rule for just about 
everything,

337
00:15:34,684 --> 00:15:37,311
and basically as long as you 
followed the rule,

338
00:15:37,311 --> 00:15:40,810
you were set because you knew you 
weren't making any mistakes.

339
00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:42,798
And he, at least, 
was like, "Okay,

340
00:15:42,798 --> 00:15:45,520
you're doing what was said, 
you're doing what was planned.

341
00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,048
You accomplished what I asked you 
to accomplish,

342
00:15:48,048 --> 00:15:50,750
nothing more, nothing less, 
and—" And without stress,

343
00:15:50,750 --> 00:15:53,287
above all. Once again, 
the guy was right there;

344
00:15:53,287 --> 00:15:55,975
he would even go grab a drink with 
us after school,

345
00:15:55,975 --> 00:15:59,384
yet no one would ever call him by 
his first name or anything like

346
00:15:59,384 --> 00:16:02,000
that—no, it was just very natural 
and grounded.

347
00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:06,135
And that's definitely an example 
where you think to yourself,

348
00:16:06,135 --> 00:16:09,790
"Having always been taller and 
physically more imposing than

349
00:16:09,790 --> 00:16:14,363
average, I could play on that, 
but there's no point." In fact,

350
00:16:14,363 --> 00:16:16,723
I think the more softly you speak, 
the more people

351
00:16:16,723 --> 00:16:17,759
listen to you in a way.

352
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:23,723
And so, based on the experiences 
you've described,

353
00:16:23,723 --> 00:16:27,599
what was the path that led you to 
teaching?

354
00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:30,898
Well, look, after two years of law 
school, I did my three years of

355
00:16:30,898 --> 00:16:31,960
teacher training college.

356
00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:33,680
So you originally started out 
studying law?

357
00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:35,884
Yeah, I did two years of law 
anyway; in fact, I really

358
00:16:35,884 --> 00:16:37,000
did two years of university.

359
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:42,742
And so why did you go into law when 
from the start you knew it was more

360
00:16:42,742 --> 00:16:44,060
towards teaching?

361
00:16:44,140 --> 00:16:45,780
I didn't really know from the 
start.

362
00:16:45,820 --> 00:16:48,232
Once again you know, 
I think that's also kind of the

363
00:16:48,232 --> 00:16:50,760
problem with being, 
with having too many passions or

364
00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:52,540
being interested in too many 
things.

365
00:16:52,700 --> 00:16:55,772
It's how you ultimately choose what 
you want to pursue,

366
00:16:55,772 --> 00:16:59,179
I think it's a relatively common 
thing for quite a few people.

367
00:16:59,340 --> 00:17:01,257
When you know, you know, 
yeah that's cool,

368
00:17:01,257 --> 00:17:03,886
but when you don't know, 
you end up doing something kind of

369
00:17:03,886 --> 00:17:07,303
like everyone else. The only thing 
I didn't do was study law with my

370
00:17:07,303 --> 00:17:09,833
best buddy. Because in that case, 
neither he nor I would have

371
00:17:09,833 --> 00:17:12,204
succeeded, that was clear, 
so there you go. So he went to a

372
00:17:12,204 --> 00:17:15,405
university with the person who 
would later become his wife,

373
00:17:15,405 --> 00:17:19,055
and I went to another university, 
which was probably the best thing.

374
00:17:20,420 --> 00:17:23,623
But yeah, once again, 
as much as I was intellectually

375
00:17:23,623 --> 00:17:26,460
fed, I also knew, 
I felt that it wasn't the path.

376
00:17:26,780 --> 00:17:29,818
And what was the trigger that made 
you

377
00:17:29,818 --> 00:17:31,140
leave law? Because as a result, you 
could very well...

378
00:17:31,260 --> 00:17:33,527
The fact of coaching soccer, 
right (Olivier My: Ah ok, right),

379
00:17:33,527 --> 00:17:35,577
so as I said earlier, 
I started coaching soccer there and

380
00:17:35,577 --> 00:17:38,353
I found myself in another context 
doing other things. And really,

381
00:17:38,353 --> 00:17:41,522
once again, yeah, 
you feel the moment when things

382
00:17:41,522 --> 00:17:44,690
move, you feel the moment when you 
have an impact.

383
00:17:45,010 --> 00:17:47,560
What I always find interesting 
about people who go in having

384
00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:49,753
already made the decision to head 
in one direction,

385
00:17:49,753 --> 00:17:51,538
which is already great (Vincent 
Ertveld:

386
00:17:51,538 --> 00:17:54,796
Yeah). But now, when you realize 
you're not in the right place,

387
00:17:54,796 --> 00:17:56,767
it's kind of like the bus stop 
syndrome.

388
00:17:57,330 --> 00:18:00,204
You know, you're there, 
waiting for something to arrive,

389
00:18:00,204 --> 00:18:03,017
and then you've already invested so 
much that you think,

390
00:18:03,017 --> 00:18:05,359
"Well, I might as well stay, 
you know." But you,

391
00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:08,138
from what you're telling me, 
you had an outside experience,

392
00:18:08,138 --> 00:18:10,584
you told yourself, 
"Look, there are too many signals

393
00:18:10,584 --> 00:18:13,196
showing it's not here, 
I have to make the decision to walk

394
00:18:13,196 --> 00:18:16,970
away." So then, was that decision 
easy?

395
00:18:16,970 --> 00:18:17,250
Yes.

396
00:18:17,250 --> 00:18:18,250
Not easy?

397
00:18:18,290 --> 00:18:20,120
But in my case, yes (Olivier My: 
Supported, by the way), yes,

398
00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:23,515
supported too, yes, 
yes. Not especially my father who,

399
00:18:23,515 --> 00:18:26,572
well, I think he was never a big 
fan of change,

400
00:18:26,572 --> 00:18:30,370
and he thought that law was also a 
good direction for me.

401
00:18:30,370 --> 00:18:33,650
And in a way, once again, 
intellectually it probably was.

402
00:18:34,170 --> 00:18:36,914
On the other hand, 
I never really had any criticism or

403
00:18:36,914 --> 00:18:38,099
problems afterwards.

404
00:18:38,140 --> 00:18:40,674
It's not like they had—they paid 
for my studies after all,

405
00:18:40,674 --> 00:18:42,258
everything you could want, 
so yeah.

406
00:18:43,660 --> 00:18:47,335
And quitting law was never a 
problem because it was relatively

407
00:18:47,335 --> 00:18:51,157
obvious. And you know that 
afterwards you're normally in it

408
00:18:51,157 --> 00:18:53,340
for 40 years doing that, 
and that...

409
00:18:54,300 --> 00:18:56,312
I also still knew that, 
as a teacher, you had some time to

410
00:18:56,312 --> 00:18:59,501
do other things on the side, 
right? You have to admit there is

411
00:18:59,501 --> 00:19:02,127
that aspect too, 
there are still quieter periods as

412
00:19:02,127 --> 00:19:04,692
a teacher, in which you can invest 
in other things,

413
00:19:04,692 --> 00:19:07,135
you can do other, 
you can launch other projects.

414
00:19:07,300 --> 00:19:10,276
So you leave law, 
you enter the program (Vincent

415
00:19:10,276 --> 00:19:13,699
Ertveld: Yeah), the training path 
to become a teacher?

416
00:19:14,140 --> 00:19:16,625
Three years, smooth sailing, 
internships,

417
00:19:16,625 --> 00:19:17,900
lots of luck there too.

418
00:19:17,940 --> 00:19:20,826
In truth, I never really had major 
problems,

419
00:19:20,826 --> 00:19:25,116
except maybe one internship that 
went really badly in a school for

420
00:19:25,116 --> 00:19:27,768
rich kids, where I couldn't fit in 
at all,

421
00:19:27,768 --> 00:19:30,264
and on top of that it was in first 
grade,

422
00:19:30,264 --> 00:19:31,740
so first grade for you.

423
00:19:31,740 --> 00:19:34,365
Six-year-old kids, 
back then I wasn't equipped yet to

424
00:19:34,365 --> 00:19:37,281
work with children so young; 
I had always liked working with

425
00:19:37,281 --> 00:19:39,030
ten-, eleven-, twelve-year-olds.

426
00:19:39,110 --> 00:19:42,359
Working with six-year-olds and 
teaching them to read is a whole

427
00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:44,749
other dynamic, another, 
it's not the same job.

428
00:19:44,750 --> 00:19:46,682
And back then I wasn't equipped for 
it,

429
00:19:46,682 --> 00:19:47,708
I wasn't feeling it.

430
00:19:47,710 --> 00:19:49,964
Specifically, I wanted to control 
those kids,

431
00:19:49,964 --> 00:19:52,621
but it's not possible; 
you can't control a first-grade

432
00:19:52,621 --> 00:19:53,950
class, that doesn't exist.

433
00:19:53,950 --> 00:19:55,710
You guide, but you don't control.

434
00:19:56,910 --> 00:20:00,790
And so that was really an 
incredibly difficult internship.

435
00:20:00,830 --> 00:20:03,842
And as it turns out, 
purely by chance on the calendar,

436
00:20:03,842 --> 00:20:07,126
two weeks later I was in a 
school—for those who know what it

437
00:20:07,126 --> 00:20:10,276
means—deep in Saint-Josse, 
so a relatively difficult

438
00:20:10,276 --> 00:20:11,988
socio-cultural background.

439
00:20:11,990 --> 00:20:15,072
But in sixth grade, 
three weeks, three incredible

440
00:20:15,072 --> 00:20:17,860
weeks, a blast, 19 out of 20 on the 
internship,

441
00:20:17,860 --> 00:20:20,501
really something where you tell 
yourself,

442
00:20:20,501 --> 00:20:23,946
there you go. And the school I 
teach at is the school I went

443
00:20:23,946 --> 00:20:25,028
to when I was a kid.

444
00:20:25,110 --> 00:20:26,110
Today?

445
00:20:26,350 --> 00:20:29,110
Yeah. My classroom is my 
fifth-grade classroom.

446
00:20:29,390 --> 00:20:31,356
In the meantime, 
the neighborhood has changed a lot,

447
00:20:31,356 --> 00:20:34,234
the socio-cultural background has 
changed tremendously. But I love it

448
00:20:34,234 --> 00:20:36,279
because that's precisely why I have 
an impact.

449
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,894
Much stronger than that strange 
experience I had in that school

450
00:20:39,894 --> 00:20:42,565
where, in a way, 
the little darling knew what I was

451
00:20:42,565 --> 00:20:44,520
explaining to her better than I 
did.

452
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,397
And where it was a bit, 
a hair more complicated given who I

453
00:20:47,397 --> 00:20:48,720
was at the time, 
probably, too.

454
00:20:49,120 --> 00:20:51,978
And what do you take away from this 
teaching journey,

455
00:20:51,978 --> 00:20:54,121
in terms of the different 
internships,

456
00:20:54,121 --> 00:20:56,520
regarding your current teaching 
practice?

457
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,124
Naturally, when you do student 
teaching placements, you see

458
00:21:00,124 --> 00:21:02,328
different teaching styles, 
you see different types of

459
00:21:02,328 --> 00:21:05,262
personalities. And with some, 
well,

460
00:21:05,262 --> 00:21:09,321
it either resonates or it doesn't, 
you know that's it or you know

461
00:21:09,321 --> 00:21:12,014
that's not it. And for example, 
there was one teacher who,

462
00:21:12,014 --> 00:21:14,495
when he moved the line along on the 
stairs, - snapping fingers - he

463
00:21:14,495 --> 00:21:17,913
snapped his fingers. And it still 
feels a bit strange the first time,

464
00:21:17,913 --> 00:21:20,282
but he would say, 
"I only use my voice when it's

465
00:21:20,282 --> 00:21:23,973
really necessary. So here I could 
have just tapped on the stair

466
00:21:23,973 --> 00:21:25,986
banister - snapping fingers - 
Well,

467
00:21:25,986 --> 00:21:29,540
I do that to keep them moving, 
but it's just because when I speak,

468
00:21:29,540 --> 00:21:32,606
it's because I want people to 
listen to me." So,

469
00:21:32,606 --> 00:21:34,874
when he explains it to you like 
that, it makes sense, but the first

470
00:21:34,874 --> 00:21:37,184
time you just hear the snapping 
fingers you go - Snapping fingers -

471
00:21:37,184 --> 00:21:39,531
"That's a bit weird, 
isn't it?". And so yeah,

472
00:21:39,531 --> 00:21:40,910
that kind of thing.

473
00:21:42,030 --> 00:21:45,511
But it was, once again, 
I had a lot of very interesting

474
00:21:45,511 --> 00:21:48,914
schools with very, 
very interesting characters as

475
00:21:48,914 --> 00:21:50,990
well. So yeah, lucky once again.

476
00:21:51,030 --> 00:21:53,938
And so you finish this teacher 
training path (Vincent Ertveld:

477
00:21:53,938 --> 00:21:56,790
Yeah) and do you go straight to the 
school where you work today?

478
00:21:57,390 --> 00:21:59,898
Yeah. So the school I'm in, 
or where I was, you know. In fact,

479
00:21:59,898 --> 00:22:03,237
the principal who hired me was my 
sixth-grade teacher,

480
00:22:03,237 --> 00:22:04,470
so there you have it.

481
00:22:04,510 --> 00:22:07,427
And for him, it was his last day 
since he was retiring the next day.

482
00:22:07,510 --> 00:22:09,972
So literally, I called him to say, 
"Listen,

483
00:22:09,972 --> 00:22:12,981
I finished my studies" because I 
wanted to thank him,

484
00:22:12,981 --> 00:22:16,470
and he told me, "Come over, 
because I have a teacher leaving."

485
00:22:16,550 --> 00:22:19,796
And so he signed my contract in 
front of the principal who was

486
00:22:19,796 --> 00:22:21,741
going to take his place the next 
day,

487
00:22:21,741 --> 00:22:24,597
who had no say in the matter that 
it was me being hired,

488
00:22:24,597 --> 00:22:26,150
by the way, and that was that.

489
00:22:26,270 --> 00:22:29,004
After that, a teaching career is, 
sometimes you have to change

490
00:22:29,004 --> 00:22:30,845
schools, sometimes at the end of 
the year,

491
00:22:30,845 --> 00:22:33,155
that's just how it is. It turns out 
that once again,

492
00:22:33,155 --> 00:22:35,420
I had monstrous luck and every year 
someone left,

493
00:22:35,420 --> 00:22:37,464
and so I stayed, 
now I am, I've been at the same

494
00:22:37,464 --> 00:22:40,059
school for (Olivier My: 
You're part of the furniture) at

495
00:22:40,059 --> 00:22:44,287
least all that time. I think maybe 
they should rename the school after

496
00:22:44,287 --> 00:22:45,318
me, maybe one day...

497
00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:47,641
That's something that should be 
conceivable,

498
00:22:47,641 --> 00:22:50,400
maybe, I think. In all humility, 
of course!

499
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:52,984
Of course. And you start at that 
school,

500
00:22:52,984 --> 00:22:55,534
so that's the first step into the 
reality (Vincent Ertveld:

501
00:22:55,534 --> 00:22:58,598
Yeah) on the ground. Even if you 
did internships (Vincent Ertveld:

502
00:22:58,598 --> 00:23:00,400
Mm), do you remember your 
beginnings?

503
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:02,360
Were they as perfect as the school?

504
00:23:02,360 --> 00:23:06,247
I was sick as a dog on Tuesday 
afternoons because I had the

505
00:23:06,247 --> 00:23:08,398
sixth-grade class for 2 hours.

506
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,680
And with how well-equipped I was at 
the time,

507
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,520
to me it was an insane class.

508
00:23:14,120 --> 00:23:16,592
Meaning they were all completely 
nuts in there,

509
00:23:16,592 --> 00:23:19,063
when actually, not at all, 
that wasn't the case,

510
00:23:19,063 --> 00:23:20,916
and I saw them again later, 
and yeah.

511
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,535
But to me, it was a group of raving 
lunatics;

512
00:23:23,535 --> 00:23:27,098
it's just that once again, 
I was the one who wasn't properly

513
00:23:27,098 --> 00:23:31,240
equipped, who was once again trying 
to control the group when that's

514
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:32,257
not how it works.

515
00:23:32,780 --> 00:23:35,174
Certainly not, I think in fifth and 
sixth grade,

516
00:23:35,174 --> 00:23:37,029
you have to get them on board with 
you,

517
00:23:37,029 --> 00:23:39,006
there has to be, 
there has to be a certain

518
00:23:39,006 --> 00:23:41,220
atmosphere so there can also be an 
exchange.

519
00:23:42,580 --> 00:23:44,698
And so there you go, 
that year was horrible, and then

520
00:23:44,698 --> 00:23:47,454
well, in the end you learn because, 
because you get a door slammed in

521
00:23:47,454 --> 00:23:49,963
your face and you just have to 
learn to do things differently,

522
00:23:49,963 --> 00:23:52,520
because you know it didn't work, 
and so it's up to you to evolve,

523
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,878
not the kids. The kids, 
they've already moved on,

524
00:23:54,878 --> 00:23:57,544
it's over for them, 
but you stay behind and you have to

525
00:23:57,544 --> 00:24:00,091
evolve to find a better solution 
and a better way of

526
00:24:00,091 --> 00:24:01,300
experiencing your job.

527
00:24:01,340 --> 00:24:03,054
And on that note, 
you mentioned twice,

528
00:24:03,054 --> 00:24:04,820
"I wasn't equipped" (Vincent 
Ertveld:

529
00:24:04,820 --> 00:24:08,392
Yeah). Are there certain tools 
today that are truly part of your

530
00:24:08,392 --> 00:24:10,498
practice and help you on a daily 
basis?

531
00:24:10,500 --> 00:24:12,099
And that you could potentially 
share with us?

532
00:24:12,460 --> 00:24:15,208
Silence. Staying quiet works really 
well,

533
00:24:15,208 --> 00:24:17,790
doesn't it? Besides, 
even my kids at home,

534
00:24:17,790 --> 00:24:20,857
when I go quiet, 
they know something is off.

535
00:24:20,900 --> 00:24:23,979
So silence is actually much more 
powerful than yelling.

536
00:24:26,700 --> 00:24:29,279
Just saying, "I know you're not 
happy,

537
00:24:29,279 --> 00:24:32,584
I know what I'm saying right now, 
the punishment,

538
00:24:32,584 --> 00:24:35,889
the whole thing, 
I know it doesn't make you happy.

539
00:24:36,290 --> 00:24:38,569
Unfortunately, that's still how 
it's going to work.

540
00:24:38,570 --> 00:24:40,170
That's still how we're going to do 
it.

541
00:24:40,290 --> 00:24:42,643
We can talk about it again 
tomorrow, though; tomorrow we can

542
00:24:42,643 --> 00:24:44,954
revisit this. But today, 
this decision stands,

543
00:24:44,954 --> 00:24:46,449
you have to do what I tell you.

544
00:24:47,330 --> 00:24:49,254
And then tomorrow we can talk about 
it again,

545
00:24:49,254 --> 00:24:52,114
and you can even tell me tomorrow 
if you want that you thought it was

546
00:24:52,114 --> 00:24:53,206
unfair for X, Y, 
Z reason.

547
00:24:53,570 --> 00:24:56,339
But today, on the other hand, 
you're going to do what I ask." And

548
00:24:56,339 --> 00:24:59,690
that's something that eventually 
gets around in school.

549
00:24:59,770 --> 00:25:02,892
Because when you've been at the 
same school for a number of years:

550
00:25:02,892 --> 00:25:05,089
Mr. Vincent is scary, 
but we have a good laugh.

551
00:25:05,810 --> 00:25:08,530
With Mr. Vincent we work, 
but we have fun.

552
00:25:08,850 --> 00:25:11,520
And well, ultimately, 
that's a curious balance you

553
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,439
strike, and there's a quote I 
really like—I love quotes,

554
00:25:14,439 --> 00:25:16,589
right? It's that balance doesn't 
exist;

555
00:25:16,589 --> 00:25:18,089
we are merely tightrope walkers.

556
00:25:18,250 --> 00:25:20,367
And in the classroom, 
it's a constant balance

557
00:25:20,367 --> 00:25:23,766
between—indeed, you need a certain 
amount of respect because otherwise

558
00:25:23,766 --> 00:25:25,716
you won't make it, 
on both sides by the way,

559
00:25:25,716 --> 00:25:28,167
you also have to respect what they 
are experiencing.

560
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,096
And on the other hand, 
at some point, things still have to

561
00:25:31,096 --> 00:25:34,379
move forward, you see? You still 
need to get results—now,

562
00:25:34,379 --> 00:25:37,256
you can define results in many 
different ways,

563
00:25:37,256 --> 00:25:39,617
but we still try to achieve 
something;

564
00:25:39,617 --> 00:25:41,240
we have a goal for each kid.

565
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,920
And for each adult I coach later in 
my other life as well.

566
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,694
And so at that point, 
well yes, respect,

567
00:25:49,694 --> 00:25:51,679
but still, results.

568
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:52,825
So we agree that the Mr.

569
00:25:52,825 --> 00:25:54,621
Vincent you're talking about was 
you,

570
00:25:54,621 --> 00:25:55,799
but with your first name.

571
00:25:55,799 --> 00:25:56,680
Yeah. Exactly, yeah.

572
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:57,606
Which goes to show (Vincent 
Ertveld: it's funny, isn't it?)

573
00:25:57,606 --> 00:25:58,080
there is a connection.

574
00:25:58,080 --> 00:25:59,872
No, but history, history is

575
00:25:59,872 --> 00:26:00,960
great, I like it.

576
00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:03,045
A quote for you if you don't know 
it,

577
00:26:03,045 --> 00:26:05,770
because it's related to what you're 
mentioning,

578
00:26:05,770 --> 00:26:08,161
it's more of a Chinese proverb, 
which says:

579
00:26:08,161 --> 00:26:11,348
it takes two years to learn to 
speak and a whole lifetime to

580
00:26:11,348 --> 00:26:12,478
learn to stay quiet.

581
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:14,200
I agree.

582
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,399
And I think it's quite true too.

583
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,129
And for someone who talks too much,

584
00:26:18,129 --> 00:26:20,914
staying quiet... Because right now 
it's fine,

585
00:26:20,914 --> 00:26:23,327
I'm controlling myself here, 
I'm holding back because it only

586
00:26:23,327 --> 00:26:27,284
lasts an hour, but... I'm holding 
back so I don't talk too much

587
00:26:27,284 --> 00:26:28,350
yet. Well, I try.

588
00:26:28,590 --> 00:26:31,387
In any case, silence is part of it 
(Vincent Ertveld: Yes). There's

589
00:26:31,387 --> 00:26:35,996
also a framework you define, 
and room for negotiation

590
00:26:35,996 --> 00:26:37,430
from what I hear?

591
00:26:37,430 --> 00:26:38,230
Yes, because

592
00:26:37,950 --> 00:26:39,470
For discussions, 
for conversations.

593
00:26:39,550 --> 00:26:42,548
Yes, yes, in any case. Negotiation 
might be a poor choice of terms

594
00:26:42,548 --> 00:26:44,844
(Olivier My: Yeah), 
especially at school, which still

595
00:26:44,844 --> 00:26:48,083
tends to be a relatively top-down 
system. There was this thing,

596
00:26:48,083 --> 00:26:49,867
a book: "Reinventing 
Organizations",

597
00:26:49,867 --> 00:26:51,922
where he talked about the colors 
(Olivier My:

598
00:26:51,922 --> 00:26:54,517
Yes) of organizations, 
and school is categorized as red,

599
00:26:54,517 --> 00:26:56,625
so relatively military-like most of 
the time.

600
00:26:57,390 --> 00:26:59,675
But even if the school is 
hierarchical, your classroom

601
00:26:59,675 --> 00:27:02,439
doesn't have to be. The school is 
top-down,

602
00:27:02,439 --> 00:27:04,013
that's just the way it is by 
default,

603
00:27:04,013 --> 00:27:06,110
but your classroom doesn't have to 
be like that.

604
00:27:06,150 --> 00:27:09,989
Your own vibe and your group don't 
have to be hierarchical.

605
00:27:10,070 --> 00:27:12,575
Now, someone still makes the 
decisions,

606
00:27:12,575 --> 00:27:14,710
which means there is no listening.

607
00:27:14,750 --> 00:27:17,659
It's always, once again, 
a tricky balance in there,

608
00:27:17,659 --> 00:27:20,635
because a decision still has to be 
made at some point,

609
00:27:20,635 --> 00:27:23,069
if only because the group hates 
confusion.

610
00:27:23,110 --> 00:27:26,563
The group, and children in general 
for that matter,

611
00:27:26,563 --> 00:27:30,658
dislike indecision and feeling like 
there is a vacuum there,

612
00:27:30,658 --> 00:27:32,586
a "power" vacuum so to speak.

613
00:27:32,586 --> 00:27:35,877
So there still needs to be a 
presence and a choice,

614
00:27:35,877 --> 00:27:39,943
a decision. That doesn't mean you 
don't have a say,

615
00:27:39,943 --> 00:27:42,360
within the framework you're given.

616
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,070
And you, within that framework, 
because you were telling us earlier

617
00:27:47,070 --> 00:27:50,397
"Well, I always felt that being 
with children (Vincent Ertveld:

618
00:27:50,397 --> 00:27:55,064
Mm) was my thing". Are you able to 
identify today what providing for

619
00:27:55,064 --> 00:27:57,794
children, being a teacher around 
children,

620
00:27:57,794 --> 00:27:59,120
nurtures within you?

621
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,568
There's probably a bit of a 
Jesus-saving-the-world complex,

622
00:28:03,568 --> 00:28:07,978
right? There's still the need to 
make an impact,

623
00:28:07,978 --> 00:28:09,973
to feel like you're doing something 
that,

624
00:28:09,973 --> 00:28:13,109
quote unquote, changes lives, 
keeping things in perspective and

625
00:28:13,109 --> 00:28:14,876
staying relatively humble about it,

626
00:28:14,876 --> 00:28:16,472
even if that's not my strong suit.

627
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,583
But there's still that need to tell 
yourself,

628
00:28:20,583 --> 00:28:25,422
"I'm doing something that matters." 
The main drawback to that is that

629
00:28:25,422 --> 00:28:27,290
you can't do it for everyone.

630
00:28:27,330 --> 00:28:29,882
And that's the main thing you have 
to make peace with:

631
00:28:29,882 --> 00:28:31,738
when you have 24 of them in front 
of you,

632
00:28:31,738 --> 00:28:33,768
you know you're not going to change 
all 24.

633
00:28:34,050 --> 00:28:36,731
You know you're doing your best, 
and for some kids,

634
00:28:36,731 --> 00:28:39,986
it's also the right time, 
because they are also going through

635
00:28:39,986 --> 00:28:43,626
their own development and there are 
things they can or cannot hear at

636
00:28:43,626 --> 00:28:45,450
that moment. But...

637
00:28:47,410 --> 00:28:50,086
You have to go into it thinking 
that you're going to help them

638
00:28:50,086 --> 00:28:53,262
fulfill who they are. Especially, 
even more so I find,

639
00:28:53,262 --> 00:28:56,883
at eleven or twelve, 
they sometimes also realize that

640
00:28:56,883 --> 00:29:00,261
it's not their parents who will 
help them the most,

641
00:29:00,261 --> 00:29:03,319
that they need to find their own 
path because,

642
00:29:03,319 --> 00:29:06,940
well, perhaps even more in my 
sociocultural context,

643
00:29:06,940 --> 00:29:10,963
you have to find your own way, 
because in some ways you're not

644
00:29:10,963 --> 00:29:12,169
going to get help.

645
00:29:12,730 --> 00:29:15,373
And eleven or twelve is early to 
realize that,

646
00:29:15,373 --> 00:29:18,573
but it's still possible; 
they can sense that something

647
00:29:18,573 --> 00:29:22,530
doesn't add up, that it's not quite 
the way other kids experience it.

648
00:29:22,770 --> 00:29:27,449
And so there's that whole part too 
where you say to yourself,

649
00:29:27,449 --> 00:29:30,723
"Whatever little confidence I can 
build,

650
00:29:30,723 --> 00:29:33,710
like believing that I am capable 
of...

651
00:29:35,110 --> 00:29:37,907
It's a win, it's a victory like any 
other,

652
00:29:37,907 --> 00:29:40,855
on a certain scale." Knowing also 
that once again,

653
00:29:40,855 --> 00:29:43,421
for some of them, 
unfortunately, the time isn't right

654
00:29:43,421 --> 00:29:46,100
yet, or I haven't managed to find 
the key yet (Olivier My:

655
00:29:46,100 --> 00:29:48,814
Yes). And once again, 
it's the same thing—that's what's

656
00:29:48,814 --> 00:29:51,310
always amazing—it's the same thing 
with kids and adults.

657
00:29:51,430 --> 00:29:54,180
You have adults who are ready to 
change,

658
00:29:54,180 --> 00:29:56,430
and adults who aren't there yet.

659
00:29:56,630 --> 00:30:01,310
But if you give it time, 
usually, it starts to come around.

660
00:30:01,310 --> 00:30:03,230
I assume we're going to talk about 
the other part too, but.

661
00:30:03,230 --> 00:30:04,110
We'll get to it, 
in any case.

662
00:30:04,110 --> 00:30:06,489
But it's true that for some people,

663
00:30:06,489 --> 00:30:10,349
it takes a year before anything 
really starts to change.

664
00:30:10,750 --> 00:30:14,108
If that's how it is with adults, 
it's the exact same with children.

665
00:30:14,150 --> 00:30:16,865
And speaking of which, 
before moving on to this second

666
00:30:16,865 --> 00:30:20,120
part, is there a breakthrough 
moment you remember—with a child,

667
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,893
or (Vincent Ertveld: 
Oh, definitely) a conversation,

668
00:30:22,893 --> 00:30:25,300
that sort of thing—that you could 
share with us?

669
00:30:26,220 --> 00:30:27,260
Or several, for that matter?

670
00:30:27,700 --> 00:30:28,855
No, several will take a long time, 
right? (Olivier My: Ah, just one

671
00:30:28,855 --> 00:30:33,354
then). There are kids with whom you 
make a kind of

672
00:30:33,354 --> 00:30:38,203
agreement. And once again, 
that goes along with knowing where

673
00:30:38,203 --> 00:30:40,700
everyone stands and accepting that.

674
00:30:40,740 --> 00:30:43,312
It's that there are kids you tell, 
"We're going to get there,

675
00:30:43,312 --> 00:30:46,339
but we'll need to do it in three 
years instead of two." Fifth grade,

676
00:30:46,339 --> 00:30:48,299
sixth grade, and then another sixth 
grade.

677
00:30:48,820 --> 00:30:51,554
You know it, in fact, 
and the kid knows it too somewhere

678
00:30:51,554 --> 00:30:54,896
deep down; they can clearly feel 
that something isn't quite there

679
00:30:54,896 --> 00:30:58,094
yet. And those with whom you pull 
off that kind of agreement,

680
00:30:58,094 --> 00:31:01,339
or sometimes you even manage to do 
it in two years because suddenly

681
00:31:01,339 --> 00:31:02,696
something really clicked.

682
00:31:02,740 --> 00:31:04,496
And actually, with kids, 
at some point,

683
00:31:04,496 --> 00:31:07,316
once it clicks—just like adults for 
that matter—all of a sudden

684
00:31:07,316 --> 00:31:09,019
momentum builds up, 
and it can go very,

685
00:31:09,019 --> 00:31:11,743
very fast. But there are some where 
you say to yourself, "The deal is

686
00:31:11,743 --> 00:31:14,701
three years; if we go faster, 
great, but otherwise..." And when

687
00:31:14,701 --> 00:31:16,969
you reach that point, 
with a great outcome,

688
00:31:16,969 --> 00:31:20,749
and someone who ultimately gains 
self-confidence—because grades on a

689
00:31:20,749 --> 00:31:23,836
report card are just a detail in 
the grand scheme of things,

690
00:31:23,836 --> 00:31:26,104
even more so now when essentially, 
in a way,

691
00:31:26,104 --> 00:31:29,569
you could say all students move up 
from one year to the next without

692
00:31:29,569 --> 00:31:31,585
an exam or anything holding them 
back.

693
00:31:31,630 --> 00:31:33,310
At least here in Belgium, 
that's the direction things are

694
00:31:33,310 --> 00:31:36,082
heading. But the act of succeeding 
is important,

695
00:31:36,082 --> 00:31:38,030
and that's actually what the exam 
is for,

696
00:31:38,030 --> 00:31:39,230
more than anything else.

697
00:31:39,350 --> 00:31:41,860
For those children, 
for the kids I mostly support,

698
00:31:41,860 --> 00:31:45,508
it's about having that feeling that 
you finally succeeded at something.

699
00:31:45,910 --> 00:31:48,745
And that's why I'm against 
abolishing exams at the end of

700
00:31:48,745 --> 00:31:50,310
sixth grade in primary school.

701
00:31:50,550 --> 00:31:54,403
Not so much because I need to say, 
"We're going to judge them and find

702
00:31:54,403 --> 00:31:58,323
out who is capable and who isn't." 
But because there are kids for whom

703
00:31:58,323 --> 00:32:01,144
it's their very first victory, 
and that matters.

704
00:32:01,470 --> 00:32:03,710
But obviously, politically it's 
less...

705
00:32:03,710 --> 00:32:05,694
that part is probably harder to 
hear,

706
00:32:05,694 --> 00:32:08,574
likely because there's an economic 
reason behind it,

707
00:32:08,574 --> 00:32:11,072
perhaps, but... But in the 
environment I work in,

708
00:32:11,072 --> 00:32:13,801
we need that victory; 
we need that moment of confidence

709
00:32:13,801 --> 00:32:15,582
where you say to yourself, "Well, 
in

710
00:32:15,582 --> 00:32:16,590
the end, I can do it."

711
00:32:16,790 --> 00:32:18,070
I am capable.

712
00:32:18,590 --> 00:32:21,395
Yeah. And there's this thing, 
it's a contract like any other,

713
00:32:21,395 --> 00:32:23,375
and sometimes, once again we don't 
manage,

714
00:32:23,375 --> 00:32:25,080
and well, you take it on yourself 
too,

715
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,080
in a way, right? It's also not your 
fault,

716
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,256
but your responsibility, 
you know! It's about having tried

717
00:32:30,256 --> 00:32:32,200
to do your best and then, 
sometimes...

718
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,600
Yes, I understand. No, 
but that's great!

719
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,046
But yeah, there are kids like that 
who stick with you,

720
00:32:37,046 --> 00:32:42,024
yeah. I have kids from 20 years ago 
who now have kids of their own,

721
00:32:42,024 --> 00:32:45,558
all the way to kids from not long 
ago where you,

722
00:32:45,558 --> 00:32:47,840
yeah... And also, 
I've always lived in this

723
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,960
neighborhood, so they're also kids 
from the neighborhood where I...

724
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,077
I still hang around that 
neighborhood quite often because

725
00:32:54,077 --> 00:32:56,515
Alex, my son, has track and field 
in that neighborhood,

726
00:32:56,515 --> 00:32:59,536
so there are kids I walk around the 
neighborhood with while Alex is at

727
00:32:59,536 --> 00:33:01,210
track and field. And we go for a 
walk,

728
00:33:01,210 --> 00:33:03,047
we walk around the neighborhood 
while,

729
00:33:03,047 --> 00:33:05,530
well, and we chat. Because yeah, 
I keep in touch with them

730
00:33:05,530 --> 00:33:07,680
afterwards. With some of them.

731
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:09,840
So it's actually a relationship 
that lasts

732
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:10,840
over time, in the end.

733
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,416
Yeah, but nothing, 
nothing ever stops, right? I don't

734
00:33:13,416 --> 00:33:14,480
think it ever stops.

735
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,000
Well, I hope it doesn't stop, 
in a way.

736
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:18,160
It's better when it doesn't stop.

737
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,665
It's better. Indeed, 
yes. And so, that's one part of

738
00:33:21,665 --> 00:33:24,293
your work, as you mentioned at the 
very beginning,

739
00:33:24,293 --> 00:33:27,672
there's also another activity that 
is more with adults (Vincent

740
00:33:27,672 --> 00:33:29,922
Ertveld: Yeah). But an interesting 
thing earlier,

741
00:33:29,922 --> 00:33:31,911
when we were discussing it, 
you told me that you found the same

742
00:33:31,911 --> 00:33:34,545
patterns (Vincent Ertveld: 
It's the same thing, yes). As what

743
00:33:34,545 --> 00:33:38,190
you saw with children, 
could you give us some examples?

744
00:33:38,550 --> 00:33:40,541
The most blatant example is that, 
well,

745
00:33:40,541 --> 00:33:42,893
in what I do, from time to time 
there is a moment,

746
00:33:42,893 --> 00:33:46,272
there are lots of building blocks, 
and you visually build your tool

747
00:33:46,272 --> 00:33:48,082
and your application, 
so it's nice,

748
00:33:48,082 --> 00:33:49,229
and it goes quite fast.

749
00:33:49,230 --> 00:33:51,783
And then all of a sudden, 
well, from time to time you still

750
00:33:51,783 --> 00:33:53,793
have to do something a bit more 
complicated,

751
00:33:53,793 --> 00:33:55,966
and right there, 
it's true that you see the child

752
00:33:55,966 --> 00:33:57,430
they once were inside the adult.

753
00:33:57,470 --> 00:34:00,934
And the example I gave earlier was 
this lady with whom I was creating

754
00:34:00,934 --> 00:34:03,472
a formula in a tool, 
and suddenly you see her hands

755
00:34:03,472 --> 00:34:06,999
contorting, and you see the child 
who struggled with math resurface

756
00:34:06,999 --> 00:34:08,910
because we were doing an 
exercise...

757
00:34:09,590 --> 00:34:11,778
Basically it was an average 
calculation exercise but with a

758
00:34:11,778 --> 00:34:13,790
mathematical formula, 
a bit like you would do in Excel.

759
00:34:14,270 --> 00:34:17,024
And all of a sudden you see this 
person twisting their fingers

760
00:34:17,024 --> 00:34:18,860
because ultimately stress 
resurfaces,

761
00:34:18,860 --> 00:34:22,060
like "Fuck, I don't understand math 
at all." And there,

762
00:34:22,060 --> 00:34:25,405
yes, indeed adults and children 
aren't that different,

763
00:34:25,405 --> 00:34:27,895
and it's the same fears of not 
succeeding,

764
00:34:27,895 --> 00:34:29,958
it's the same fear of not making 
it,

765
00:34:29,958 --> 00:34:33,302
of not being legitimate, 
of not—of not being good enough

766
00:34:33,302 --> 00:34:36,005
sometimes too, of not knowing where 
to start,

767
00:34:36,005 --> 00:34:38,068
not knowing what the first step is,

768
00:34:38,068 --> 00:34:39,135
what do I do first?

769
00:34:39,340 --> 00:34:42,362
And on that point, 
between children and adults,

770
00:34:42,362 --> 00:34:44,930
adults are better equipped to hide 
that,

771
00:34:44,930 --> 00:34:48,780
to hide that they are afraid or to 
hide that they don't know...

772
00:34:49,020 --> 00:34:51,665
Which sometimes makes things a bit 
more complicated,

773
00:34:51,665 --> 00:34:54,956
and they sometimes hide it from 
themselves and sometimes from you,

774
00:34:54,956 --> 00:34:58,130
so taking the time to dig into that 
part sometimes takes a bit more

775
00:34:58,130 --> 00:35:00,871
time. But in the end, I think it's 
always a story

776
00:35:00,871 --> 00:35:01,977
of transformation.

777
00:35:02,580 --> 00:35:07,357
And precisely, taking the plunge 
into entrepreneurship—the thing

778
00:35:07,357 --> 00:35:12,217
is, you could have easily stayed 
comfortable with your teaching job.

779
00:35:12,420 --> 00:35:15,900
What made you take the leap to do 
something else yet again?

780
00:35:16,340 --> 00:35:18,540
Initially, it was more a matter of 
opportunity;

781
00:35:18,540 --> 00:35:21,070
there was this website to build, 
this e-commerce site.

782
00:35:21,830 --> 00:35:26,421
Still, you can feel—I felt it from 
the start—teaching is great and I

783
00:35:26,421 --> 00:35:29,127
love it, I mean I think you can 
hear that,

784
00:35:29,127 --> 00:35:31,230
I think it's... You know.

785
00:35:31,790 --> 00:35:35,550
But there was still this urge to 
build my own thing on top of that.

786
00:35:35,990 --> 00:35:38,550
Once again, the teaching framework 
is what it is.

787
00:35:38,670 --> 00:35:41,630
In my classroom, 
I can build my own world and my own

788
00:35:41,630 --> 00:35:45,674
thing, but there's the whole system 
around it that I have no control

789
00:35:45,674 --> 00:35:48,562
over, and I need to have control, 
I need to build,

790
00:35:48,562 --> 00:35:50,584
I need to do it, 
I need to, you know.

791
00:35:50,710 --> 00:35:52,242
And so having my own company, 
well,

792
00:35:52,242 --> 00:35:54,724
at first it was for applications, 
it was very technical,

793
00:35:54,724 --> 00:35:56,309
it had nothing to do with 
education.

794
00:35:56,510 --> 00:35:59,930
But, with everything that happened 
during lockdown,

795
00:35:59,930 --> 00:36:03,654
with Teams, with Notion, 
with the fact that suddenly there

796
00:36:03,654 --> 00:36:07,830
were quite a few people to help 
transform the way they interacted.

797
00:36:08,430 --> 00:36:11,035
Finger snap - There you go. And 
right now, it's with AI, but in the

798
00:36:11,035 --> 00:36:14,139
end it's the same thing, 
in the sense that there is nothing

799
00:36:14,139 --> 00:36:15,430
magical about any of it.

800
00:36:15,510 --> 00:36:17,888
There's something to build, 
you need something,

801
00:36:17,888 --> 00:36:21,020
you have to establish the need, 
you have to understand what we're

802
00:36:21,020 --> 00:36:22,870
going—what we need to build, 
and so on.

803
00:36:22,910 --> 00:36:26,928
And that is a learning process just 
like any learning process;

804
00:36:26,928 --> 00:36:29,634
even in elementary school, 
it's the same,

805
00:36:29,634 --> 00:36:32,108
it's the same, yeah, 
the same process.

806
00:36:32,230 --> 00:36:34,133
From what I understand, 
not only did you,

807
00:36:34,133 --> 00:36:36,314
one, have the skills to do it 
(Vincent Ertveld:

808
00:36:36,314 --> 00:36:39,443
Yes)—that's already a first 
aspect—curiosity (Vincent Ertveld:

809
00:36:39,443 --> 00:36:40,670
Yeah), from what I can see.

810
00:36:40,950 --> 00:36:45,579
And the desire to spend your free 
time trying to bring

811
00:36:45,579 --> 00:36:49,788
even more of what you do with 
children to others.

812
00:36:50,310 --> 00:36:52,747
There's also, let's not kid 
ourselves, there's also an economic

813
00:36:52,747 --> 00:36:55,622
dimension, right? I'm not a 
non-profit organization in that

814
00:36:55,622 --> 00:36:59,393
respect, so... There's also clearly 
the fact that,

815
00:36:59,393 --> 00:37:02,895
if you're good at something, 
never do it for free,

816
00:37:02,895 --> 00:37:04,430
up to a certain point.

817
00:37:04,470 --> 00:37:06,570
I have my own personal bias on 
that,

818
00:37:06,570 --> 00:37:09,712
you know? The first time you have 
to charge someone for training,

819
00:37:09,712 --> 00:37:11,837
when ultimately you've always 
taught for free,

820
00:37:11,837 --> 00:37:13,430
it feels a bit strange nonetheless.

821
00:37:14,260 --> 00:37:17,308
And now I know my hourly rate 
compared to my teacher's hourly

822
00:37:17,308 --> 00:37:20,507
rate, I'm like... Well, 
there's quite a difference,

823
00:37:20,507 --> 00:37:23,219
but even so, I've never managed to 
leave school.

824
00:37:23,500 --> 00:37:28,129
So even though I could have gone 
completely to the entrepreneur

825
00:37:28,129 --> 00:37:30,139
side, my company, 
and so on.

826
00:37:30,300 --> 00:37:32,986
I can't bring myself to leave 
school;

827
00:37:32,986 --> 00:37:34,460
it's part of who I am.

828
00:37:34,460 --> 00:37:39,380
I think having my business on the 
side makes me a better teacher.

829
00:37:39,380 --> 00:37:43,943
Because I sometimes get the feeling 
that some teachers are disconnected

830
00:37:43,943 --> 00:37:47,011
from a kind of reality, 
which is also fine in a way,

831
00:37:47,011 --> 00:37:49,700
right? You need that too, 
in a way.

832
00:37:50,780 --> 00:37:54,023
But on the other hand, 
being a teacher naturally tends to

833
00:37:54,023 --> 00:37:55,817
make me a better adult trainer.

834
00:37:55,900 --> 00:37:57,573
And so for me, both feed into each 
other,

835
00:37:57,573 --> 00:37:59,499
and giving up one of them wouldn't 
make sense.

836
00:38:00,700 --> 00:38:04,538
And so today, in your work 
supporting adults,

837
00:38:04,538 --> 00:38:08,982
you find situations similar to the 
ones you have when

838
00:38:08,982 --> 00:38:10,699
teaching children.

839
00:38:10,900 --> 00:38:14,638
What does adult training bring to 
you that feeds into your teaching

840
00:38:14,638 --> 00:38:17,370
for children (Vincent Ertveld: 
It's still...)?

841
00:38:18,250 --> 00:38:19,769
I heard the reverse, 
but so...

842
00:38:21,570 --> 00:38:23,553
What is it about being an adult 
that makes me nurture the children

843
00:38:23,553 --> 00:38:25,302
better? The fact, 
there's reality,

844
00:38:25,302 --> 00:38:27,896
there's the fact that: 
you still have to choose a

845
00:38:27,896 --> 00:38:30,490
direction, you have to choose who 
you want to be.

846
00:38:30,530 --> 00:38:32,333
And that's a discussion we had 
earlier too,

847
00:38:32,333 --> 00:38:35,035
you have to choose who you want to 
be or you also have to choose what

848
00:38:35,035 --> 00:38:38,724
you don't want. And I think that 
telling stories from the real

849
00:38:38,724 --> 00:38:42,084
professional world, 
and even bringing in math lessons,

850
00:38:42,084 --> 00:38:44,140
etc. I was saying earlier, 
math is life,

851
00:38:44,140 --> 00:38:45,810
in primary school it's real life.

852
00:38:45,850 --> 00:38:47,875
So what you do in math, 
in primary school,

853
00:38:47,875 --> 00:38:48,888
is real-life stuff.

854
00:38:48,890 --> 00:38:52,840
If you can put it in context, 
in a real professional context,

855
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,289
with real prices, 
with real amounts,

856
00:38:55,289 --> 00:38:58,449
something shifts a little, 
the kids realize it,

857
00:38:58,449 --> 00:39:00,545
etc. Like for example: 
a bank loan,

858
00:39:00,545 --> 00:39:04,024
there are many kids who don't 
understand at all why the bank

859
00:39:04,024 --> 00:39:08,000
takes a percentage and why in the 
end paying off your house costs you

860
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:09,770
twice the price of your house.

861
00:39:10,170 --> 00:39:12,133
And as long as you don't do it for 
real,

862
00:39:12,133 --> 00:39:13,840
there's something to it, 
but...

863
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,799
But then, "Yes, but then does that 
mean I need to earn a bit more

864
00:39:16,799 --> 00:39:20,057
money after all? Because otherwise 
the house...". And in the current

865
00:39:20,057 --> 00:39:21,560
context it's probably even worse.

866
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:25,895
And so it even anchors, 
what I experience on the outside

867
00:39:25,895 --> 00:39:29,560
probably anchors what I do at 
school in reality.

868
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:31,510
And the kids, once again at that 
age,

869
00:39:31,510 --> 00:39:34,160
eleven-twelve years old, 
realize that this is really how it

870
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,512
is. Because they also realize what 
parents are going through at home,

871
00:39:37,512 --> 00:39:39,689
sometimes they even understand a 
bit better,

872
00:39:39,689 --> 00:39:42,400
etc. Especially since some of...

873
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,141
Among our students, 
some read on behalf of their

874
00:39:45,141 --> 00:39:48,256
parents. And so when you don't 
understand the letters,

875
00:39:48,256 --> 00:39:50,950
when you don't understand the 
thing. And that's one of the

876
00:39:50,950 --> 00:39:54,600
aspects of the new curriculum we 
got recently that is better than

877
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,370
before, it's that it's more 
grounded in reality,

878
00:39:57,370 --> 00:39:59,397
it's more grounded in the concrete,

879
00:39:59,397 --> 00:40:03,250
in things where you really take an 
Electrabel bill and you look at it,

880
00:40:03,250 --> 00:40:05,346
you read it, you try to understand 
it,

881
00:40:05,346 --> 00:40:07,440
you see what all the amounts on it 
are.

882
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,861
That's one of the good, 
one of the good contributions of

883
00:40:10,861 --> 00:40:13,330
the curriculum we received not long 
ago.

884
00:40:13,650 --> 00:40:16,917
But, the fact that I have it on the 
side in real life,

885
00:40:16,917 --> 00:40:19,329
with real figures in other 
contexts,

886
00:40:19,329 --> 00:40:22,907
real-life contexts, 
I think it helps the kids find some

887
00:40:22,907 --> 00:40:25,319
form of inspiration in the fact 
that,

888
00:40:25,319 --> 00:40:28,042
once again, this kind of salary 
isn't bad,

889
00:40:28,042 --> 00:40:29,287
it's already good.

890
00:40:29,650 --> 00:40:33,187
And, I never say, 
I never tell the students for

891
00:40:33,187 --> 00:40:35,049
example how much I make.

892
00:40:35,250 --> 00:40:38,192
As a teacher in Belgium, 
I think we're reasonably well paid,

893
00:40:38,192 --> 00:40:41,370
better paid than primary school 
teachers in France for example.

894
00:40:41,850 --> 00:40:44,481
I will never tell the students the 
amount I earn,

895
00:40:44,481 --> 00:40:46,650
except when we talk about it 
privately.

896
00:40:47,050 --> 00:40:49,490
When they ask me personally, 
I'll tell them.

897
00:40:49,530 --> 00:40:52,739
When we talk about it in a group 
I'm not going to say it,

898
00:40:52,739 --> 00:40:54,850
but so, that also anchors reality.

899
00:40:55,570 --> 00:40:57,250
"Sir, how much do you make? Etc".

900
00:40:57,530 --> 00:40:58,858
"This much, that much"...

901
00:40:58,858 --> 00:41:00,909
"Ah... Yes, but my dad, 
my mom, whatever,

902
00:41:00,909 --> 00:41:03,096
etc". And so, they also know now: 
hey,

903
00:41:03,096 --> 00:41:05,084
that way, it allows you to do this,

904
00:41:05,084 --> 00:41:08,564
it allows you to do that, 
it allows you to possibly buy that.

905
00:41:08,570 --> 00:41:10,728
So obviously, at first, 
that's this many PS5s,

906
00:41:10,728 --> 00:41:12,884
that's this many TVs, 
that's this many phones,

907
00:41:12,884 --> 00:41:14,876
it seems logical too, 
that's their age too,

908
00:41:14,876 --> 00:41:16,037
it's completely normal.

909
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,200
But the amount is there, 
the reality is there.

910
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:22,955
And once again, yes, 
I think both feed into each other,

911
00:41:22,955 --> 00:41:25,840
I hope. So this ability to bring 
back tangibility and grounding is

912
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,346
really what you're sharing with us 
anyway (Vincent Ertveld: I hope so,

913
00:41:28,346 --> 00:41:30,639
yes), at least that's what I'm 
hearing (Vincent Ertveld: Yeah).

914
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,711
And speaking of which, 
you mention "children," and so

915
00:41:34,711 --> 00:41:37,406
before wrapping up our time 
together,

916
00:41:37,406 --> 00:41:41,619
you mentioned that you have 
children too (Vincent Ertveld:

917
00:41:41,619 --> 00:41:44,283
Yes). What are the things that, 
for you,

918
00:41:44,283 --> 00:41:47,915
are the key elements you wish to 
share with them through all these

919
00:41:47,915 --> 00:41:50,400
interactions you have with other 
children?

920
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,548
First of all, I think they realize, 
because they come to my school from

921
00:41:54,548 --> 00:41:57,366
time to time, they realize that we 
don't all live the same reality, so

922
00:41:57,366 --> 00:41:59,838
that's pretty good because, 
in the end, they are moderately

923
00:41:59,838 --> 00:42:02,112
privileged after all, 
they always have been, and my two

924
00:42:02,112 --> 00:42:04,880
children are also in the Flemish 
education system, so they are both

925
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,341
in Dutch-language education. 
They're already experiencing a

926
00:42:07,341 --> 00:42:09,536
reality that's inevitably 
different, not that it's better or

927
00:42:09,536 --> 00:42:11,883
worse, but. Culturally, 
though, it's really not the same

928
00:42:11,883 --> 00:42:15,661
thing at all. And so, 
the more interactions they have,

929
00:42:15,661 --> 00:42:18,863
the more they realize that other 
people's reality isn't the one we

930
00:42:18,863 --> 00:42:20,840
live in, whether better or worse, 
right?

931
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,050
They also know kids who are much 
richer than we are;

932
00:42:24,050 --> 00:42:26,599
the more of that they see, 
the more it enriches them.

933
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:29,552
And then I think it's interesting 
because—I haven't mentioned it,

934
00:42:29,552 --> 00:42:31,476
but Nathalie, my partner, 
is also a teacher,

935
00:42:31,476 --> 00:42:33,036
she teaches first and second grade,

936
00:42:33,036 --> 00:42:34,648
and at the teacher training 
college,

937
00:42:34,648 --> 00:42:36,520
so she also wears several hats, 
it's funny.

938
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,946
They also realize what real life is 
like,

939
00:42:39,946 --> 00:42:42,880
having... being a teacher: 
yeah, cool.

940
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:45,560
Having your own business, 
yeah, it's interesting.

941
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:47,523
With others in the family too, 
maybe,

942
00:42:47,523 --> 00:42:50,818
being an employee—being an employee 
offers a kind of comfort,

943
00:42:50,818 --> 00:42:53,287
but there's also a huge amount of 
uncertainty,

944
00:42:53,287 --> 00:42:54,680
especially now, perhaps.

945
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,391
Is it absolutely necessary to 
become a freelancer,

946
00:42:58,391 --> 00:43:01,160
or does being a teacher still have 
a future?

947
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:05,640
Is being an employee still 
something that I want to try?

948
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,891
And it's true that in the 
discussions they have about what

949
00:43:08,891 --> 00:43:11,211
they want to do later on—for 
example Arthur,

950
00:43:11,211 --> 00:43:13,969
who is 16, hasn't figured out what 
he wants at all yet.

951
00:43:14,210 --> 00:43:16,550
Alex might have a slightly clearer 
vision,

952
00:43:16,550 --> 00:43:18,760
right now anyway, 
of what he'd like to do,

953
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:20,125
even though he's only 13.

954
00:43:20,170 --> 00:43:21,808
So there too, there's a whole...

955
00:43:21,808 --> 00:43:24,173
but at least they've seen, 
at least they've...

956
00:43:24,173 --> 00:43:25,690
they've also realized the...

957
00:43:26,490 --> 00:43:28,050
The working hours that it requires.

958
00:43:28,050 --> 00:43:32,441
Because I said earlier that I made 
a better living as a freelancer,

959
00:43:32,441 --> 00:43:36,272
but there's also an impressive 
number of hours behind it,

960
00:43:36,272 --> 00:43:39,785
so in a way, there's a kind of 
logic to the money I make,

961
00:43:39,785 --> 00:43:43,850
or that the company makes anyway, 
and they must feel that too.

962
00:43:44,250 --> 00:43:47,867
Well, afterwards, 
one of the things that's impossible

963
00:43:47,867 --> 00:43:50,618
to determine is where we'll be in 
10 years,

964
00:43:50,618 --> 00:43:53,528
or in five, or even in three, 
for that matter.

965
00:43:53,930 --> 00:43:57,830
Because well, if we had talked 
about AI five years ago and what it

966
00:43:57,830 --> 00:43:59,449
was going to change, 
well.

967
00:43:59,730 --> 00:44:01,388
And right now, if in five years...

968
00:44:01,388 --> 00:44:03,755
I don't really know where we'll be 
in five years,

969
00:44:03,755 --> 00:44:06,123
it's already hard to see three 
months ahead now,

970
00:44:06,123 --> 00:44:07,899
so (Olivier My: Yeah, 
absolutely).

971
00:44:07,940 --> 00:44:10,100
For them too, what do we steer them 
toward?

972
00:44:10,100 --> 00:44:13,600
Toward what kind of studies? Toward 
what kind of experience do we try

973
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:16,728
to lead them? It's a strange thing 
to navigate,

974
00:44:16,728 --> 00:44:18,497
but it's nice because, 
once again,

975
00:44:18,497 --> 00:44:20,140
you just have to go with the flow.

976
00:44:20,500 --> 00:44:22,980
Absolutely. Thank you Promo.

977
00:44:23,980 --> 00:44:25,459
One last question for you

978
00:44:25,460 --> 00:44:27,546
I still have one promo spot to do 
(Olivier My: That's right)

979
00:44:27,546 --> 00:44:28,780
because we said three promo spots.

980
00:44:29,180 --> 00:44:30,180
That's right. Everything comes in 
threes.

981
00:44:30,580 --> 00:44:32,260
And otherwise I don't get my free 
sandwich.

982
00:44:32,820 --> 00:44:34,060
And three free sandwiches.

983
00:44:35,300 --> 00:44:39,471
One last question for you to wrap 
up this part:

984
00:44:39,471 --> 00:44:44,411
if you had one piece of teacher's 
advice for people who

985
00:44:44,411 --> 00:44:47,923
support others, both young and 
older,

986
00:44:47,923 --> 00:44:49,460
what would it be?

987
00:44:49,540 --> 00:44:52,521
I'm going to start again with what 
I said earlier: being quiet. It's

988
00:44:52,521 --> 00:44:53,900
very hard, but keeping quiet.

989
00:44:54,220 --> 00:44:56,780
Most people will talk if there's 
silence.

990
00:44:56,780 --> 00:44:59,205
People hate emptiness, 
and so, usually,

991
00:44:59,205 --> 00:45:01,488
if you let people express 
themselves,

992
00:45:01,488 --> 00:45:03,699
you'll find out a lot more about 
them.

993
00:45:04,180 --> 00:45:07,710
And so keeping quiet is normally 
quite an interesting weapon.

994
00:45:07,750 --> 00:45:09,943
Now, sometimes you still need a 
little motivation,

995
00:45:09,943 --> 00:45:12,340
you still need a bit of context, 
you need a small gesture,

996
00:45:12,340 --> 00:45:13,666
you need a little word, 
agreed.

997
00:45:13,870 --> 00:45:16,011
But keeping quiet as much as 
possible,

998
00:45:16,011 --> 00:45:17,749
yeah, is actually pretty good.

999
00:45:18,870 --> 00:45:21,507
And the second thing, 
but this I think is hard to

1000
00:45:21,507 --> 00:45:24,750
acquire, but it's a discussion we 
had at the table as well.

1001
00:45:25,630 --> 00:45:27,786
Empathy is incredible; 
when you have it,

1002
00:45:27,786 --> 00:45:31,209
it's fabulous because you can put 
yourself in the other person's

1003
00:45:31,209 --> 00:45:35,517
shoes. When you don't have it, 
it's still much more complicated to

1004
00:45:35,517 --> 00:45:37,689
acquire. And I know, 
for instance,

1005
00:45:37,689 --> 00:45:41,117
that between my two kids, 
one really has it and the other is

1006
00:45:41,117 --> 00:45:44,762
still learning in that respect, 
and the more situations they

1007
00:45:44,762 --> 00:45:46,906
experience, the more they realize.

1008
00:45:46,950 --> 00:45:50,316
And, for me, for example, 
it's through the movies I choose to

1009
00:45:50,316 --> 00:45:52,809
watch with them, 
we try to understand what's

1010
00:45:52,809 --> 00:45:55,166
happening, why that character says 
that,

1011
00:45:55,166 --> 00:45:57,253
why they are going through that, 
why,

1012
00:45:57,253 --> 00:45:58,667
why might they feel that?

1013
00:45:58,830 --> 00:46:02,307
And in almost every movie that's 
somewhat decently put together,

1014
00:46:02,307 --> 00:46:05,595
you have those dimensions, 
you still have characters that are

1015
00:46:05,595 --> 00:46:10,240
well developed. You still have to 
find a way to raise awareness of

1016
00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:13,080
that when you don't know, 
when you don't have it naturally.

1017
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,120
And so yes, I love cinema too, 
and I love the bonus features.

1018
00:46:16,240 --> 00:46:18,478
In the family, they make fun of me 
because I'm Mr.

1019
00:46:18,478 --> 00:46:21,219
Bonus Feature and I watch the 
bonuses more than the movies,

1020
00:46:21,219 --> 00:46:23,233
but precisely, it's in the 
screenwriting,

1021
00:46:23,233 --> 00:46:24,913
it's in the story being told that 
the

1022
00:46:24,913 --> 00:46:26,080
real value lies, I think.

1023
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:30,203
So silences and an emotional, 
empathetic dimension that you would

1024
00:46:30,203 --> 00:46:31,440
suggest developing

1025
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:32,840
Trying to understand what's 
happening on the other side, yes.

1026
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:35,791
Yeah, well, great! Thank you very 
much anyway,

1027
00:46:35,791 --> 00:46:39,040
Vincent, for this story we had, 
that we shared together.

1028
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:40,735
It's not completely over, as 
(Vincent Ertveld: Do you

1029
00:46:40,735 --> 00:46:41,759
realize that we had...), as you 
know

1030
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:43,000
And a story in front of an 
audience, no less.

1031
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:44,160
Absolutely.

1032
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:46,387
Some people got into trouble 
watching Coldplay and all, it

1033
00:46:46,387 --> 00:46:48,488
turned out to be a problem for them 
(Olivier My: Laughter - That's

1034
00:46:48,488 --> 00:46:51,520
true). Do you want us to take the 
same photo? No?

1035
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:53,520
That's for the bonus, 
that's for later.

1036
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:55,017
But it's for the audience (Olivier 
My: Absolutely). Because those

1037
00:46:55,017 --> 00:46:56,760
listening to the audio won't get to 
enjoy that.

1038
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:58,877
That's true. Just so you know, 
there's video,

1039
00:46:58,877 --> 00:47:03,715
though. So, for this second part, 
as you know and as I'm

1040
00:47:03,715 --> 00:47:07,917
introducing it to the audience, 
I actually have cards right here

1041
00:47:07,917 --> 00:47:10,485
that I specifically chose for 
Vincent,

1042
00:47:10,485 --> 00:47:11,885
which are questions.

1043
00:47:12,210 --> 00:47:15,450
So I know, but he doesn't know what 
questions are inside.

1044
00:47:15,490 --> 00:47:19,649
And so I'm going to ask him to pick 
some and answer them.

1045
00:47:19,690 --> 00:47:20,770
So basically you...

1046
00:47:22,210 --> 00:47:25,130
You shuffle—in fact, 
I'll let you shuffle them,

1047
00:47:25,130 --> 00:47:26,809
it gives a sense of control.

1048
00:47:26,970 --> 00:47:28,183
Oh yeah, big time.

1049
00:47:28,183 --> 00:47:30,770
Now I'm—I feel way more reassured 
now.

1050
00:47:30,770 --> 00:47:31,930
I can feel it, I can feel it.

1051
00:47:31,930 --> 00:47:32,610
And so (Vincent Ertveld: 
Which card should I pick) I'll let

1052
00:47:32,610 --> 00:47:34,970
you... Pick whichever one you want,

1053
00:47:34,970 --> 00:47:37,770
read it, and then I invite you to 
answer it.

1054
00:47:37,770 --> 00:47:39,970
For those who hadn't figured it 
out, I took the third one, right?

1055
00:47:40,450 --> 00:47:44,067
So, given the choice, 
would you rather sneeze whenever

1056
00:47:44,067 --> 00:47:47,130
you get angry, or yawn every time 
you're happy?

1057
00:47:47,170 --> 00:47:49,890
Wow! I'd rather sneeze.

1058
00:47:50,650 --> 00:47:52,689
Because yawning is really a thing.

1059
00:47:53,210 --> 00:47:55,006
It's one of my—one of my pet 
peeves,

1060
00:47:55,006 --> 00:47:58,229
when someone yawns in front of me, 
I have a bit of a hard time with

1061
00:47:58,229 --> 00:48:00,210
it. Especially when we're talking.

1062
00:48:00,250 --> 00:48:02,953
Like, it sometimes happens with 
students who yawn when I'm speaking

1063
00:48:02,953 --> 00:48:06,053
to them... I have to admit I really 
have to hold back,

1064
00:48:06,053 --> 00:48:08,169
so given the choice, 
I'd rather sneeze whenever I get

1065
00:48:08,169 --> 00:48:09,743
angry. Plus when—if I have to 
be—yeah, well

1066
00:48:09,743 --> 00:48:10,820
yeah, it's definitely better.

1067
00:48:10,860 --> 00:48:11,860
Do you get annoyed often?

1068
00:48:13,420 --> 00:48:16,019
Less now, yeah, less now, 
but...

1069
00:48:16,340 --> 00:48:18,056
There's a whole series of things 
where,

1070
00:48:18,056 --> 00:48:20,812
indeed, most of the time it's 
because things aren't moving fast

1071
00:48:20,812 --> 00:48:22,876
enough. It's because I sense the 
thing,

1072
00:48:22,876 --> 00:48:24,612
and I'd like it to - 
snapping fingers -

1073
00:48:24,612 --> 00:48:25,180
But no...

1074
00:48:25,180 --> 00:48:26,765
Now every time you snap your 
fingers, I feel

1075
00:48:26,765 --> 00:48:27,778
like I have to move forward.

1076
00:48:29,140 --> 00:48:31,035
There's something to it, 
huh? It's borderline Pavlovian

1077
00:48:31,035 --> 00:48:33,441
(Olivier My: Exactly). But no, 
sneezing instead of getting angry,

1078
00:48:33,441 --> 00:48:35,500
yes, that's probably better if I 
had to choose.

1079
00:48:35,540 --> 00:48:36,780
Okay, well great.

1080
00:48:36,820 --> 00:48:37,820
That's one down.

1081
00:48:37,820 --> 00:48:38,940
So we've done one now.

1082
00:48:39,540 --> 00:48:42,818
What I suggest now is that you pick 
two,

1083
00:48:42,818 --> 00:48:47,017
read both of them, and then you'll 
have the choice

1084
00:48:47,017 --> 00:48:48,140
of which one.

1085
00:48:48,420 --> 00:48:49,420
Do I read both out loud, 
though?

1086
00:48:49,420 --> 00:48:51,278
Yes, you read both out loud, 
that way people know which one you

1087
00:48:51,278 --> 00:48:54,130
avoided (Vincent Ertveld: 
You just found out). And then you

1088
00:48:54,130 --> 00:48:55,459
answer whichever one you want.

1089
00:48:55,580 --> 00:48:58,110
That's a good one already (Olivier 
My: Yes). You just found out that

1090
00:48:58,110 --> 00:49:00,504
you were going to die in a year, 
would you change anything in your

1091
00:49:00,504 --> 00:49:04,542
life and why? What is the most 
useful thing you learned from your

1092
00:49:04,542 --> 00:49:06,720
parents? My God!

1093
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:08,560
I didn't warn you that this was 
coming, did I?

1094
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:10,658
Knowing that I'm not religious at 
all, besides, when I say my God

1095
00:49:10,658 --> 00:49:12,320
it's pretty ridiculous, 
but somehow, there it is.

1096
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:13,840
Generally, you say yes

1097
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:16,600
Yes. I think you mean me when you 
say that.

1098
00:49:18,720 --> 00:49:20,440
My parents, I'll tell them.

1099
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:23,923
I'll take: if I had to, 
if I learn that I'm going to die in

1100
00:49:23,923 --> 00:49:25,398
a year, what would I change?

1101
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:30,321
I think undoubtedly even more than 
now,

1102
00:49:30,321 --> 00:49:32,758
I would spend time with my 
children.

1103
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:37,658
Right now, I already spend a 
relatively infinite amount of time

1104
00:49:37,658 --> 00:49:41,137
with them, with sports, 
the six times a week Arthur has

1105
00:49:41,137 --> 00:49:43,920
swimming, Alex's sports, 
and everything.

1106
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:48,012
But I think, first of all, 
I'd give up the company because it

1107
00:49:48,012 --> 00:49:49,997
makes no sense at that point.

1108
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:52,248
And all the time I invested in the 
company,

1109
00:49:52,248 --> 00:49:53,865
I would invest even more in the 
kids,

1110
00:49:53,865 --> 00:49:58,004
I think. But apart from that, 
there isn't much I would change,

1111
00:49:58,004 --> 00:50:02,821
actually. Over time, 
I've learned to say what I

1112
00:50:02,821 --> 00:50:06,345
thought or the positive things I 
felt to the people around me,

1113
00:50:06,345 --> 00:50:10,004
so it's not like I would have to 
start running around the globe to

1114
00:50:10,004 --> 00:50:11,385
tell people I love them.

1115
00:50:11,710 --> 00:50:13,270
So that's fine, that's taken care 
of.

1116
00:50:16,830 --> 00:50:21,430
I don't know, I'm—we are constantly 
evolving or always moving

1117
00:50:21,430 --> 00:50:26,350
forward, but... I'm relatively 
happy with what I'm doing

1118
00:50:26,350 --> 00:50:28,150
now, with what we're experiencing.

1119
00:50:28,950 --> 00:50:31,959
So I don't see why I should change 
just because it's over in a year,

1120
00:50:31,959 --> 00:50:34,579
other than indeed spending even 
more time with the kids,

1121
00:50:34,579 --> 00:50:37,217
but... While trying not to be 
overly sentimental, though, because

1122
00:50:37,217 --> 00:50:39,347
otherwise it makes no sense. More 
like, let's go,

1123
00:50:39,347 --> 00:50:41,564
now we're off bungee jumping and 
all that,

1124
00:50:41,564 --> 00:50:43,274
so they dare to do it once with me,

1125
00:50:43,274 --> 00:50:46,250
and afterward, they'll dare to do 
it perhaps without me,

1126
00:50:46,250 --> 00:50:48,590
which is the whole point of the 
thing anyway.

1127
00:50:48,750 --> 00:50:50,430
It's so they dare to do everything, 
but without me.

1128
00:50:50,790 --> 00:50:52,030
Well, great, thank you!

1129
00:50:52,630 --> 00:50:54,730
It's not over (Vincent Ertveld: 
Ah). Because, well, as we know,

1130
00:50:54,730 --> 00:50:56,630
good things come in threes (Vincent 
Ertveld:

1131
00:50:56,630 --> 00:50:58,794
indeed). And so what I'm going to 
suggest is...

1132
00:50:58,794 --> 00:51:00,660
So you put them all back together, 
wait...

1133
00:51:01,020 --> 00:51:02,020
Did I cheat, maybe?

1134
00:51:02,020 --> 00:51:03,780
Yeah, I'm going to take away the 
one you already did.

1135
00:51:03,980 --> 00:51:05,859
Yeah, but no, I'll take another one 
if needed, but...

1136
00:51:05,900 --> 00:51:09,433
And... What I'm going to suggest is 
that you pick three,

1137
00:51:09,433 --> 00:51:10,700
there aren't many left.

1138
00:51:10,980 --> 00:51:14,511
And usually what I do is you give 
them to me,

1139
00:51:14,511 --> 00:51:17,659
and I choose. What I suggest is 
that we read them out,

1140
00:51:17,659 --> 00:51:19,300
and we ask the audience to choose.

1141
00:51:19,340 --> 00:51:20,460
Ah, even better!

1142
00:51:21,420 --> 00:51:24,860
So, wait, I'm just trying to take 
out the one you've already done.

1143
00:51:30,500 --> 00:51:32,682
We won't make it complicated, 
right? We'll just deal them

1144
00:51:32,682 --> 00:51:33,780
like cards, there we go

1145
00:51:33,780 --> 00:51:34,790
I was happy trying to

1146
00:51:34,790 --> 00:51:36,097
shuffle them, but anyway.

1147
00:51:36,140 --> 00:51:37,578
No, sure, but there you go.

1148
00:51:38,180 --> 00:51:42,555
So I'm going to read them to you, 
and once we've done all three,

1149
00:51:42,555 --> 00:51:45,900
we'll try to see through a vote 
what you'd like.

1150
00:51:47,380 --> 00:51:51,144
"If you could have a superpower, 
which one would it be,

1151
00:51:51,144 --> 00:51:52,900
and how would you use it?"

1152
00:51:54,340 --> 00:51:55,340
OK.

1153
00:51:56,270 --> 00:52:01,017
The second one, "If you could have 
dinner with anyone in the world,

1154
00:52:01,017 --> 00:52:02,310
who would it be?".

1155
00:52:05,990 --> 00:52:10,390
And the last one is "Tell me about 
the last time you did

1156
00:52:10,390 --> 00:52:12,990
something for the first time."

1157
00:52:15,630 --> 00:52:19,109
So, by a show of hands, 
who is in favor of the superpower?

1158
00:52:20,830 --> 00:52:23,430
Unanimously, no one is raising 
their hand.

1159
00:52:24,670 --> 00:52:28,230
The answer is teleportation, 
for those who weren't interested.

1160
00:52:28,270 --> 00:52:30,350
That's it for a lot of people! It's 
super surprising!

1161
00:52:30,390 --> 00:52:31,670
We really waste a lot of time in 
transit though.

1162
00:52:31,750 --> 00:52:33,426
Exactly. So it's true, 
(Vincent Ertveld: it takes forever

1163
00:52:33,426 --> 00:52:37,193
for nothing) it's really funny. I 
think in 80% of my episodes where

1164
00:52:37,193 --> 00:52:40,830
this question comes up, 
it's teleportation.

1165
00:52:41,190 --> 00:52:43,177
And yet the most important thing is 
the journey and not the

1166
00:52:43,177 --> 00:52:44,504
destination, but (Olivier My: 
That's

1167
00:52:44,504 --> 00:52:45,622
the point), still, all the same.

1168
00:52:46,550 --> 00:52:48,310
Who's voting for the dinner?

1169
00:52:50,590 --> 00:52:51,630
Ah, we have five people.

1170
00:52:51,670 --> 00:52:54,648
And who's for the last of the 
first?

1171
00:52:54,648 --> 00:52:59,374
Ah well, that one wins then: 
"Tell me about the last time

1172
00:52:59,374 --> 00:53:02,660
you did something for the first 
time?"

1173
00:53:07,220 --> 00:53:09,260
That's probably the worst one 
because I have no idea right now.

1174
00:53:10,020 --> 00:53:11,340
I think that's why they chose it.

1175
00:53:11,380 --> 00:53:16,379
Yes. They look distressed, 
so there's a clue.

1176
00:53:16,380 --> 00:53:19,369
I should have acted totally 
confident:

1177
00:53:19,369 --> 00:53:24,075
"I've got this, I know." It's the 
first time I'm doing a podcast in

1178
00:53:24,075 --> 00:53:26,220
front of a live audience, 
am I cheating if I say that?

1179
00:53:26,260 --> 00:53:27,740
Yes, another one!

1180
00:53:28,980 --> 00:53:30,139
You're not even funny.

1181
00:53:31,100 --> 00:53:32,180
Apple, pear, peach...

1182
00:53:32,420 --> 00:53:35,980
No idea really, what did I do for 
the first time not long ago?

1183
00:53:39,540 --> 00:53:41,980
The thing is, my life isn't 
extraordinary,

1184
00:53:41,980 --> 00:53:45,097
you know, it's not like I'm doing 
crazy stuff every day.

1185
00:53:51,620 --> 00:53:55,367
As strange as it may sound, 
but it's ridiculous to say this

1186
00:53:55,367 --> 00:53:59,503
anyway, I think Morocco's last 
match was the first time I went to

1187
00:53:59,503 --> 00:54:02,003
watch a Morocco match, 
a soccer match,

1188
00:54:02,003 --> 00:54:04,871
in a café. I think that was really 
the first time that ever happened

1189
00:54:04,871 --> 00:54:07,309
to me, and I was with some friends 
because, well, and we went...

1190
00:54:07,750 --> 00:54:11,413
Besides, after leaving here I'm 
going to watch the Morocco match at

1191
00:54:11,413 --> 00:54:14,030
the same café, at Toufik's, 
because he has good,

1192
00:54:14,030 --> 00:54:15,665
he has good cookies, you need a

1193
00:54:15,665 --> 00:54:16,909
reason after all, but.

1194
00:54:17,230 --> 00:54:18,990
That was the third commercial plug, 
there you go.

1195
00:54:20,230 --> 00:54:22,142
Yes. It's still far from here, 
though. So we can all go together

1196
00:54:22,142 --> 00:54:24,589
and everything, but it's going to, 
it's going to kill the vibe a bit.

1197
00:54:24,830 --> 00:54:27,110
No, but I'm not really a public 
places person,

1198
00:54:27,110 --> 00:54:30,348
etc. We were talking earlier, 
at the table as well for that

1199
00:54:30,348 --> 00:54:34,302
matter, about nightclubs and all, 
that's never been my thing because

1200
00:54:34,302 --> 00:54:37,439
I've never, I've never been very 
good at conversation,

1201
00:54:37,439 --> 00:54:39,550
at approaching someone I don't 
know.

1202
00:54:39,590 --> 00:54:41,877
And so I'm not, if we've made 
contact,

1203
00:54:41,877 --> 00:54:44,163
I'll talk to you without any 
problem,

1204
00:54:44,163 --> 00:54:46,229
but otherwise it's less my thing.

1205
00:54:47,630 --> 00:54:50,238
And so yeah, going to a café to 
watch a soccer game,

1206
00:54:50,238 --> 00:54:52,529
that's still two things I don't 
usually do:

1207
00:54:52,529 --> 00:54:55,260
I don't go to cafés, 
and I watch soccer less and less.

1208
00:54:55,460 --> 00:54:57,747
Now, I'm watching soccer because of 
Alex,

1209
00:54:57,747 --> 00:55:00,100
my youngest who is super into the 
World Cup.

1210
00:55:00,380 --> 00:55:03,130
But then on top of that, going to a 
café to watch the

1211
00:55:03,130 --> 00:55:04,339
match, that's, yeah!

1212
00:55:04,500 --> 00:55:06,587
Well, bravo first of all, you found 
it! You answered

1213
00:55:06,587 --> 00:55:07,660
the question, thank you very much.

1214
00:55:07,700 --> 00:55:11,252
That was an extreme answer, 
I think I changed roughly the lives

1215
00:55:11,252 --> 00:55:13,780
of half the audience, 
or a third, by three...

1216
00:55:13,820 --> 00:55:15,918
In any case, thank you very much, 
Vincent (Vincent Ertveld: Thank

1217
00:55:15,918 --> 00:55:18,419
you) for all this time spent 
together. Thank you to the audience

1218
00:55:18,419 --> 00:55:19,940
for this time spent together.

1219
00:55:19,980 --> 00:55:23,012
If people want to keep chatting 
with you,

1220
00:55:23,012 --> 00:55:25,420
how do they get in touch with you?

1221
00:55:25,740 --> 00:55:30,447
It's KréaCity: k r a c i t

1222
00:55:30,447 --> 00:55:33,986
y. Kreacity, there you go, 
I think I'm the only one with that

1223
00:55:33,986 --> 00:55:36,380
name, so: type KréaCity, 
you'll definitely find me.

1224
00:55:36,660 --> 00:55:38,915
The easiest way is always LinkedIn 
for those who,

1225
00:55:38,915 --> 00:55:42,160
whether it's professional or not, 
but that's probably the place where

1226
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:44,140
I have the most conversations with 
people,

1227
00:55:44,140 --> 00:55:46,175
because naturally that's where it 
happens.

1228
00:55:46,860 --> 00:55:49,740
But yeah, Kreacity LinkedIn.

1229
00:55:49,980 --> 00:55:51,360
Thank you very much.

1230
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:52,000
Thank you.

1231
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:53,000
And see you next time.

1232
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:54,120
I hope so!

1233
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:02,440
Thank you very much.

1234
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:04,960
My pleasure. Thanks

1235
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:10,039
Are there any questions?

1236
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:13,840
There are questions, 
I saved the ten minutes for you.

1237
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:15,280
Good call!

1238
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:19,527
I'll be quick because I know 
Olivier has a train to catch

1239
00:56:19,527 --> 00:56:21,040
(Olivier My: 5:10 p.m., 
it's fine).

1240
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:23,403
I have a question because, 
Vincent,

1241
00:56:23,403 --> 00:56:26,192
you mentioned at one point that 
your English teacher was called up

1242
00:56:26,192 --> 00:56:28,677
in front of the class so that you 
could teach instead of her.

1243
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:31,480
So that was your first teaching 
experience.

1244
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:33,080
How did it actually go?

1245
00:56:33,240 --> 00:56:37,154
Well, Nawal answered my question 
very well,

1246
00:56:37,154 --> 00:56:39,264
so there. So it went very well.

1247
00:56:39,264 --> 00:56:42,792
Well, I only had the chance to ask 
one vocabulary question,

1248
00:56:42,792 --> 00:56:44,880
and Nawal had the answer, 
so, uh...

1249
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:49,752
I think as an English teacher, 
I'm at pretty much

1250
00:56:49,752 --> 00:56:53,042
100%. But it was pretty silly of me 
anyway,

1251
00:56:53,042 --> 00:56:55,721
it's a teenage thing of defying the 
teacher,

1252
00:56:55,721 --> 00:56:58,470
which by the way I encounter at 
school as well.

1253
00:56:58,470 --> 00:57:01,037
But I personally like it when 
they're a bit defiant toward me at

1254
00:57:01,037 --> 00:57:03,856
school, I like it because it shows 
some character. And at eleven or

1255
00:57:03,856 --> 00:57:06,149
twelve years old, 
when you manage to talk back to

1256
00:57:06,149 --> 00:57:09,016
teachers and... To challenge them a 
bit,

1257
00:57:09,016 --> 00:57:11,498
I must admit I find it quite nice, 
it's a sign of

1258
00:57:11,498 --> 00:57:13,066
character to me, so I like it.

1259
00:57:13,230 --> 00:57:15,948
And do you think something sparked 
inside you at that moment, or not?

1260
00:57:15,990 --> 00:57:17,610
No (Amandine Barles: 
No, okay), no,

1261
00:57:17,610 --> 00:57:20,310
it was literally—apart from a 
rebellious streak—nothing.

1262
00:57:20,790 --> 00:57:22,885
It was just my moment of, 
how should I say,

1263
00:57:22,885 --> 00:57:25,843
it was my moment of bravado, 
even though I had always been a

1264
00:57:25,843 --> 00:57:27,750
pretty well-behaved boy until then.

1265
00:57:27,910 --> 00:57:31,778
But the second, the second time in 
fifth year of secondary school,

1266
00:57:31,778 --> 00:57:34,589
I was much less well-behaved, 
much less shy too,

1267
00:57:34,589 --> 00:57:36,347
but anyway, maybe that was the

1268
00:57:36,347 --> 00:57:38,510
trigger. Maybe.

1269
00:57:38,550 --> 00:57:39,550
Maybe.

1270
00:57:41,790 --> 00:57:43,745
Any other questions or

1271
00:57:43,745 --> 00:57:46,470
comments? Yes.

1272
00:57:48,110 --> 00:57:49,561
Michel is totally on the ball, 
popping out of

1273
00:57:49,561 --> 00:57:50,620
nowhere with his microphone...

1274
00:57:50,980 --> 00:57:51,980
Incredible!

1275
00:57:51,980 --> 00:57:52,980
Incredible!

1276
00:57:53,700 --> 00:57:56,670
I also have the opportunity to do a 
bit of teaching and everything,

1277
00:57:56,670 --> 00:57:58,884
and I wanted to know, 
since you probably have more

1278
00:57:58,884 --> 00:58:01,206
perspective than me, 
do you feel that with the era of

1279
00:58:01,206 --> 00:58:03,529
snack content, etc., 
there is a real issue with

1280
00:58:03,529 --> 00:58:05,714
concentration and dropping off 
faster,

1281
00:58:05,714 --> 00:58:08,866
or in the end, are we just 
imagining things and it has always

1282
00:58:08,866 --> 00:58:10,020
more or less existed?

1283
00:58:13,260 --> 00:58:15,900
It is still the teacher's problem 
when they are not listening.

1284
00:58:17,060 --> 00:58:20,700
So no matter what generation we 
have...

1285
00:58:22,500 --> 00:58:24,899
I am going to give a two-part 
answer to that.

1286
00:58:25,460 --> 00:58:29,336
First of all, it is always the 
teacher's responsibility to be

1287
00:58:29,336 --> 00:58:31,540
listened to, or at least followed.

1288
00:58:32,420 --> 00:58:35,160
You are the one who decides, 
you are the one in charge,

1289
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:37,087
it is your class, 
it is your activity,

1290
00:58:37,087 --> 00:58:39,888
you chose the activity, 
and what you want is for them to

1291
00:58:39,888 --> 00:58:40,940
come along with you.

1292
00:58:41,020 --> 00:58:43,459
If they come along with you, 
that is on you;

1293
00:58:43,459 --> 00:58:45,060
that is my basic principle.

1294
00:58:45,540 --> 00:58:49,824
Then, on the other hand, 
no child is born

1295
00:58:49,824 --> 00:58:53,069
focused; that does not exist.

1296
00:58:53,270 --> 00:58:57,464
So once again, it is my role to 
teach them how to

1297
00:58:57,464 --> 00:59:02,098
concentrate, focus on a subject, 
and stay engaged

1298
00:59:02,098 --> 00:59:05,669
with it. Which means that just like 
you do with young children,

1299
00:59:05,669 --> 00:59:07,573
and maybe you have to start further 
back,

1300
00:59:07,573 --> 00:59:10,310
you have to begin with sessions 
that are relatively light.

1301
00:59:10,350 --> 00:59:13,925
For example, with memorization 
tasks,

1302
00:59:13,925 --> 00:59:18,151
no one is born knowing their Latin 
vocabulary,

1303
00:59:18,151 --> 00:59:22,592
but you can acquire a technique 
that allows you to

1304
00:59:22,592 --> 00:59:25,190
retain it faster and faster.

1305
00:59:26,070 --> 00:59:30,270
My responsibility is to put them in 
a position where they can learn.

1306
00:59:30,790 --> 00:59:33,571
So, no matter what happens on the 
outside,

1307
00:59:33,571 --> 00:59:36,988
what happens in my classroom is my 
responsibility.

1308
00:59:37,470 --> 00:59:42,381
Is it—because to be honest about 
the other side of things—is it

1309
00:59:42,381 --> 00:59:44,270
easier now than before?

1310
00:59:44,270 --> 00:59:49,071
No, okay cool, it is true, 
they might be a bit less focused,

1311
00:59:49,071 --> 00:59:52,572
but come on, I think even in the 
'80s—well,

1312
00:59:52,572 --> 00:59:56,675
I was at school, 
I was finishing primary school in

1313
00:59:56,675 --> 01:00:00,316
'89. And in secondary school 
afterwards,

1314
01:00:00,316 --> 01:00:01,720
when it was boring, 
it was boring.

1315
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:04,485
But that is mainly the teacher's 
fault,

1316
01:00:04,485 --> 01:00:06,160
or the subject's fault.

1317
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:08,536
Yet I think that, 
once again, in primary school,

1318
01:00:08,536 --> 01:00:11,209
if you manage to make primary 
school material boring,

1319
01:00:11,209 --> 01:00:14,790
that is your fault. If you cannot 
bring them along with you,

1320
01:00:14,790 --> 01:00:16,640
that is reasonably your fault.

1321
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:20,516
If you do not put them in 
conditions where they can learn to

1322
01:00:20,516 --> 01:00:22,977
concentrate and memorize more and 
more,

1323
01:00:22,977 --> 01:00:24,280
that is your job, 
man.

1324
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:27,519
So, in a way, there you go.

1325
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:29,772
But do they not have the same 
expectations,

1326
01:00:29,772 --> 01:00:31,811
the same desires, 
they do not laugh at the same

1327
01:00:31,811 --> 01:00:34,347
things, etc. Well yes, 
but we did not laugh at the same

1328
01:00:34,347 --> 01:00:37,474
things as our parents either, 
we did not listen to the same music

1329
01:00:37,474 --> 01:00:38,595
as our parents either.

1330
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:40,280
Are standards dropping?

1331
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:44,888
Probably, but on that point, 
I have nothing to say.

1332
01:00:44,970 --> 01:00:47,138
Yet my job has not changed in 25 
years,

1333
01:00:47,138 --> 01:00:50,567
and my job is to take a student 
from where they are right now,

1334
01:00:50,567 --> 01:00:52,730
and try to bring them a little 
higher.

1335
01:00:52,970 --> 01:00:57,094
That part has not changed, 
and it is not the fault of the

1336
01:00:57,094 --> 01:01:02,042
children in front of us whether 
they are higher or lower compared

1337
01:01:02,042 --> 01:01:04,608
to the children I had 25 years ago.

1338
01:01:04,970 --> 01:01:08,694
That is my problem as an adult, 
which they should not have to

1339
01:01:08,694 --> 01:01:12,646
suffer through. So with all that, 
I am completely fine with it;

1340
01:01:12,646 --> 01:01:15,610
it is my responsibility to do my 
best so that...

1341
01:01:17,130 --> 01:01:19,615
And they come as they are, 
right, because they do not know how

1342
01:01:19,615 --> 01:01:20,808
to be anything else, 
not yet.

1343
01:01:21,610 --> 01:01:25,298
And are you able to take some 
liberties with the way you teach,

1344
01:01:25,298 --> 01:01:26,527
the formats you use?

1345
01:01:26,570 --> 01:01:28,983
Well, my students are a bit older 
(Vincent Ertveld:

1346
01:01:28,983 --> 01:01:30,723
Yeah), but the difficulty I run 
into,

1347
01:01:30,723 --> 01:01:33,642
when I was telling you about 
concentration (Vincent Ertveld:

1348
01:01:33,642 --> 01:01:35,495
Yeah), is that sometimes during 
class,

1349
01:01:35,495 --> 01:01:37,853
you actually have to deliver boring 
information,

1350
01:01:37,853 --> 01:01:41,109
theory, and you're sometimes forced 
to go through that phase because

1351
01:01:41,109 --> 01:01:43,524
it's foundational knowledge they 
need to acquire.

1352
01:01:43,610 --> 01:01:46,346
And it's true that nowadays, 
I feel the current trend is to

1353
01:01:46,346 --> 01:01:48,284
challenge ourselves more on the 
format,

1354
01:01:48,284 --> 01:01:50,450
the approach and everything, 
which is great.

1355
01:01:50,530 --> 01:01:53,258
Except that, well, 
once you've tried everything and

1356
01:01:53,258 --> 01:01:56,482
you still can't spark that 
curiosity for that specific topic,

1357
01:01:56,482 --> 01:01:58,770
it's not always easy to reconnect, 
you know?

1358
01:01:59,050 --> 01:02:00,083
And you're—well, I assume

1359
01:02:00,083 --> 01:02:01,210
you teach secondary school.

1360
01:02:02,330 --> 01:02:04,664
Well, I don't really know what 
secondary corresponds to, I teach

1361
01:02:04,664 --> 01:02:07,128
BTS students, so basically it's the 
second level after high school.

1362
01:02:07,130 --> 01:02:12,068
Okay, there you go. What I'm saying 
only applies to primary

1363
01:02:12,068 --> 01:02:16,067
school, meaning that my own 
experience is extremely limited,

1364
01:02:16,067 --> 01:02:20,065
so I wouldn't presume to lecture 
anyone on anything other than

1365
01:02:20,065 --> 01:02:21,370
primary education.

1366
01:02:21,410 --> 01:02:24,215
So when you get to higher levels, 
where there's more theory and more

1367
01:02:24,215 --> 01:02:26,720
abstract things—I mentioned it 
earlier with mathematical

1368
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:29,025
vectors—at some point, 
I still haven't understood the

1369
01:02:29,025 --> 01:02:33,959
point of it. So when my oldest had 
that in school and asked

1370
01:02:33,959 --> 01:02:37,645
me what it was for, 
I didn't have a good answer.

1371
01:02:38,090 --> 01:02:41,825
Except that, indeed, 
it trains the mind and it's a kind

1372
01:02:41,825 --> 01:02:44,149
of intellectual challenge to...

1373
01:02:44,149 --> 01:02:47,552
Here, in your case, 
you have to deliver material,

1374
01:02:47,552 --> 01:02:48,797
and it's a bit dry.

1375
01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:53,463
Indeed, but they're not twelve 
anymore either,

1376
01:02:53,463 --> 01:02:56,440
and they probably chose to be where 
they are.

1377
01:02:56,640 --> 01:02:57,919
So there, maybe, 
maybe...

1378
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:00,533
Maybe, right? I have no idea, 
you know? A kind of challenge to

1379
01:03:00,533 --> 01:03:03,531
set or a contest to have, 
like—Finger snap—"Let's see,

1380
01:03:03,531 --> 01:03:05,879
who can repeat this back to me the 
right way?

1381
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:09,910
Who can say this to me correctly, 
etc.?" And the ones who stay quiet

1382
01:03:09,910 --> 01:03:12,250
are probably the ones who need you 
the most,

1383
01:03:12,250 --> 01:03:15,890
even now, because they're probably 
also less equipped to retain or

1384
01:03:15,890 --> 01:03:18,642
memorize stuff. Maybe they didn't 
even choose to be there,

1385
01:03:18,642 --> 01:03:20,424
and at that point, 
maybe they should do something

1386
01:03:20,424 --> 01:03:25,019
else. And that story of my two 
years of law school and switching

1387
01:03:25,019 --> 01:03:28,304
over—once again, 
I was very lucky because it was

1388
01:03:28,304 --> 01:03:31,260
acceptable at home, 
and I was ready to do it,

1389
01:03:31,260 --> 01:03:33,312
and I realized it, 
but anyway.

1390
01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:38,517
But once again, what I say about 
school is limited to

1391
01:03:38,517 --> 01:03:43,203
primary school in my environment, 
with who I am as a

1392
01:03:43,203 --> 01:03:45,695
person, I... Preaching?

1393
01:03:45,695 --> 01:03:48,807
No. But in any case, 
I know what I want when it comes to

1394
01:03:48,807 --> 01:03:51,306
my classroom and in the environment 
I'm in.

1395
01:03:51,350 --> 01:03:53,978
And so, regarding my answer 
earlier,

1396
01:03:53,978 --> 01:03:57,030
when the kids don't succeed, 
it's my fault.

1397
01:03:57,430 --> 01:03:59,350
I'm not saying it's the teacher's 
fault; I'm saying it's my fault.

1398
01:03:59,390 --> 01:04:01,744
It's simpler, because that provides 
the best

1399
01:04:01,744 --> 01:04:03,230
environment for the answer.

1400
01:04:03,350 --> 01:04:04,790
I think it's time.

1401
01:04:05,190 --> 01:04:06,550
Yes! Exactly!

1402
01:04:07,230 --> 01:04:08,230
Thank you very much.

1403
01:04:08,750 --> 01:04:09,750
Would you like me to give you a 
book?

1404
01:04:11,630 --> 01:04:12,630
Oh, that's kind of you, 
thank you.

1405
01:04:12,950 --> 01:04:14,310
Would you like me to sign it for 
you, maybe?

1406
01:04:15,670 --> 01:04:16,790
It's Michel's book, so we're going 
to...