1 00:00:00,020 --> 00:00:03,203 We can do a quick poll: who here feels they have some 2 00:00:03,203 --> 00:00:06,691 slight money issues, or isn't completely comfortable 3 00:00:06,691 --> 00:00:10,390 with it? Yes, yes, are there others, 4 00:00:10,390 --> 00:00:12,620 no? Your finances are doing fine, right? 5 00:00:13,140 --> 00:00:16,500 Okay. Yes, yes, I was about to say. 6 00:00:16,540 --> 00:00:21,217 Valérie, is she perhaps an expert on the topic of money? 7 00:00:21,260 --> 00:00:24,596 So, in the meantime, Valérie, do you want to tell us 8 00:00:24,596 --> 00:00:26,900 about what you do regarding money? 9 00:00:26,940 --> 00:00:31,354 And that way we can, well, draw a parallel with Romain 10 00:00:31,354 --> 00:00:33,060 and what he tells us. 11 00:00:33,180 --> 00:00:35,140 She was on the podium a few years ago! 12 00:00:36,260 --> 00:00:40,364 Yes. So I'll talk about my podcast instead, 13 00:00:40,364 --> 00:00:44,628 because I actually launched it here about three years ago now, 14 00:00:44,628 --> 00:00:47,498 I think, and it's called "Happy Pod Cash". 15 00:00:48,020 --> 00:00:52,369 So it's actually a concept based around profitable 16 00:00:52,369 --> 00:00:55,191 happiness. So I start from the idea that, 17 00:00:55,191 --> 00:00:58,630 obviously, humans are at the center and you have to find your 18 00:00:58,630 --> 00:01:01,176 connection with the three forms of capital. 19 00:01:01,180 --> 00:01:03,927 I talk about the three forms of capital, 20 00:01:03,927 --> 00:01:08,506 which are identity capital—meaning what learning journey we've 21 00:01:08,506 --> 00:01:11,338 ultimately taken throughout our lives. 22 00:01:11,500 --> 00:01:14,875 To intersect with humanitarian capital, 23 00:01:14,875 --> 00:01:17,380 which means what motivates me? 24 00:01:17,380 --> 00:01:20,540 How do I contribute to bettering society? 25 00:01:20,700 --> 00:01:23,142 And then, of course, monetary capital, 26 00:01:23,142 --> 00:01:26,029 which for me is also a predisposition linked to 27 00:01:26,029 --> 00:01:29,214 personality and motivations in terms of behavior, 28 00:01:29,214 --> 00:01:33,211 in terms of attitude toward money, in terms of relationship with 29 00:01:33,211 --> 00:01:37,156 money. So that's not everything, but when you combine these three 30 00:01:37,156 --> 00:01:39,296 things and step back as an observer, 31 00:01:39,296 --> 00:01:42,863 and manage to become a bit more aware of who you are and how you 32 00:01:42,863 --> 00:01:45,787 behave with money, then you can obviously look at 33 00:01:45,787 --> 00:01:48,854 money differently, look at your relationship with 34 00:01:48,854 --> 00:01:51,922 money differently, and also build up your skills to 35 00:01:51,922 --> 00:01:54,060 move toward profitable happiness. 36 00:01:54,060 --> 00:01:57,465 There you go, it's improvised, but that's also why we're here—for 37 00:01:57,465 --> 00:01:59,320 the synergies between podcasters. 38 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:01,608 Romain, it's your turn with your 39 00:02:01,608 --> 00:02:02,840 podcast. You're welcome. 40 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,640 Hi! Hi everyone! Thanks for introducing me. 41 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,490 As it turns out, I'm not entirely going to talk just 42 00:02:11,490 --> 00:02:14,810 about money, so there's no way you could have known since I turned in 43 00:02:14,810 --> 00:02:16,825 my presentation last night at midnight, 44 00:02:16,825 --> 00:02:18,480 like any proper procrastinator. 45 00:02:18,640 --> 00:02:20,810 And indeed, my name is Romain Oger, 46 00:02:20,810 --> 00:02:23,578 I have a podcast about investing, business, 47 00:02:23,578 --> 00:02:26,746 and success. It's called "De rien," and the idea is, 48 00:02:26,746 --> 00:02:30,164 for someone who didn't get an inheritance or doesn't have a large 49 00:02:30,164 --> 00:02:32,822 net worth anyway, how to aim for financial peace of 50 00:02:32,822 --> 00:02:35,226 mind through their own means, with humility. 51 00:02:35,226 --> 00:02:37,883 But at any rate, building something and becoming a 52 00:02:37,883 --> 00:02:39,080 bit more independent. 53 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,856 So, I could have given you a talk on wealth management, 54 00:02:42,856 --> 00:02:46,102 on financial education, and then I thought about it and 55 00:02:46,102 --> 00:02:49,346 told myself that this was "Pod BXL," so we were here in an 56 00:02:49,346 --> 00:02:51,320 independent podcast ecosystem. 57 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:55,011 And as for me, I completely changed my life for podcasting, 58 00:02:55,011 --> 00:02:58,327 so I wanted to show you how podcasting was ultimately, 59 00:02:58,327 --> 00:03:01,348 I think, my true wealth and how it changed my life. 60 00:03:02,590 --> 00:03:04,418 So maybe to kick things off, well, 61 00:03:04,418 --> 00:03:06,638 a game that's also a bit related to money, 62 00:03:06,638 --> 00:03:10,190 let's be honest. Who wants to answer the first question? 63 00:03:10,350 --> 00:03:12,798 I don't know if there's a mic, so question—ah, 64 00:03:12,798 --> 00:03:15,310 this one is for €1,000, I think, this question. 65 00:03:15,350 --> 00:03:17,630 Who listens to podcasts today? 66 00:03:18,110 --> 00:03:19,830 Who wants to take the mic to answer? 67 00:03:21,590 --> 00:03:23,110 Go ahead, don't be shy. 68 00:03:24,750 --> 00:03:27,310 Passionately. Passionately, absolutely. 69 00:03:27,350 --> 00:03:29,390 C, is that your final answer? 70 00:03:29,430 --> 00:03:30,670 That's my final answer. 71 00:03:31,710 --> 00:03:33,030 Your ultimate final word? 72 00:03:33,470 --> 00:03:34,590 Great! Is there... 73 00:03:34,870 --> 00:03:36,430 I hope everyone listens to podcasts? 74 00:03:36,550 --> 00:03:38,150 Otherwise you're disqualified? 75 00:03:39,030 --> 00:03:41,754 Second question was: who wants to change jobs or isn't 76 00:03:41,754 --> 00:03:45,146 necessarily comfortable in their current job and maybe aspires to 77 00:03:45,146 --> 00:03:48,790 other things? A slightly more personal question. 78 00:03:48,910 --> 00:03:49,950 Totally. 79 00:03:49,990 --> 00:03:51,911 Totally (Audience 2: Me too) - Laughter. She didn't wait 80 00:03:51,911 --> 00:03:53,390 for the 50/50 or to phone a friend... 81 00:03:53,390 --> 00:03:53,990 Oh no 82 00:03:53,550 --> 00:03:55,550 It was immediate. 83 00:03:56,590 --> 00:03:58,410 And so the third question, well it's, 84 00:03:58,410 --> 00:04:00,229 and perhaps the 1-million question. 85 00:04:00,270 --> 00:04:03,060 So I asked you who would be tempted to launch a podcast, 86 00:04:03,060 --> 00:04:05,912 and I put new in parentheses, since I suspect that in the 87 00:04:05,912 --> 00:04:09,070 audience quite a few people have already launched their own. 88 00:04:12,150 --> 00:04:13,533 Come out of the woodwork, who doesn't have their 89 00:04:13,533 --> 00:04:14,709 podcast yet and would like to launch one? 90 00:04:14,830 --> 00:04:16,430 One can be related to the other, so... 91 00:04:17,390 --> 00:04:19,353 I'd also say "totally yes", but then I 92 00:04:19,353 --> 00:04:20,430 don't know if... Yes 93 00:04:21,390 --> 00:04:24,036 Well, great. In fact, that's kind of the point of my 94 00:04:24,036 --> 00:04:27,080 story, to show you how, well, ultimately the questions one 95 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:30,437 might have about their life, a podcast can actually answer them, 96 00:04:30,437 --> 00:04:31,989 and can highlight all of that. 97 00:04:32,590 --> 00:04:34,854 So I'll go back a bit to the beginning, 98 00:04:34,854 --> 00:04:36,241 to who I am and who I was. 99 00:04:36,241 --> 00:04:39,531 I actually worked in large-scale retail for 18 years, 100 00:04:39,531 --> 00:04:42,236 specifically for two brands: Leroy Merlin, 101 00:04:42,236 --> 00:04:45,597 in DIY/home improvement, and also for a bit at Norauto, 102 00:04:45,597 --> 00:04:47,425 an automotive repair center. 103 00:04:47,670 --> 00:04:51,488 And I was always an employee, so I was really doing retail on the 104 00:04:51,488 --> 00:04:54,425 ground: serving customers, setting up aisles, 105 00:04:54,425 --> 00:04:56,848 and I had the chance to relocate stores. 106 00:04:57,130 --> 00:05:00,116 And I mention this because when you're an employee, 107 00:05:00,116 --> 00:05:03,172 you also have a structure, you get used to something, 108 00:05:03,172 --> 00:05:05,186 and you sort of fall into a routine, 109 00:05:05,186 --> 00:05:08,242 what we call in France and everywhere else a rat race: 110 00:05:08,242 --> 00:05:09,562 commute, work, sleep. 111 00:05:09,610 --> 00:05:13,530 Naturally, with retail, you have hours spread across very 112 00:05:13,530 --> 00:05:16,192 broad shifts. You have to be very agile, 113 00:05:16,192 --> 00:05:19,941 where, well, when there's a need, you can't shy away from coming into 114 00:05:19,941 --> 00:05:21,650 work and giving up your day off. 115 00:05:21,930 --> 00:05:24,457 Anyway, I was extremely driven by that, 116 00:05:24,457 --> 00:05:28,050 I was passionate about it, and I still did it for 18 years. 117 00:05:28,650 --> 00:05:31,188 But something new happened in between: 118 00:05:31,188 --> 00:05:33,650 I had my first child, and then a second. 119 00:05:33,690 --> 00:05:37,210 So today, they've grown up a bit; they are four and seven years old. 120 00:05:37,250 --> 00:05:42,167 Still, when the first one arrived, it raised quite a few questions, 121 00:05:42,167 --> 00:05:46,910 and I realized I couldn't actively participate in family life or 122 00:05:46,910 --> 00:05:48,490 keep up with my child. 123 00:05:48,530 --> 00:05:51,694 So it starts with missing a school fete on a Saturday because as a 124 00:05:51,694 --> 00:05:54,979 retail worker you work weekends, but it's also sometimes getting 125 00:05:54,979 --> 00:05:57,905 home too late for dinner or to read a bedtime story with him. 126 00:05:57,990 --> 00:06:01,072 And so inevitably, that really started making me 127 00:06:01,072 --> 00:06:03,629 wonder, "Is this what I really wanted?". 128 00:06:03,670 --> 00:06:06,270 A little seed had already been planted. 129 00:06:07,110 --> 00:06:09,897 And then, well, I don't know whether having kids was the 130 00:06:09,897 --> 00:06:12,561 trigger, or if it was just being fed up after 18 years, 131 00:06:12,561 --> 00:06:15,830 but there were plenty of things that became a bit more unbearable 132 00:06:15,830 --> 00:06:18,554 for me. So here, I made a nice allegory of unhappy 133 00:06:18,554 --> 00:06:19,630 customers for you. 134 00:06:19,670 --> 00:06:23,424 But it's true that customers are becoming increasingly demanding; 135 00:06:23,424 --> 00:06:26,389 in an era where everyone wants everything instantly, 136 00:06:26,389 --> 00:06:30,145 perhaps sometimes self-centered, it was harder and harder for me to 137 00:06:30,145 --> 00:06:34,030 emotionally handle customers who completely let loose emotionally. 138 00:06:35,310 --> 00:06:39,054 Also, teams that weren't easy, because behind teams there are 139 00:06:39,054 --> 00:06:42,006 human beings—I managed up to 60 people in a store, 140 00:06:42,006 --> 00:06:45,463 and it's true that you have to manage to cater to everyone. 141 00:06:45,470 --> 00:06:48,130 And you can't please everyone all the time, 142 00:06:48,130 --> 00:06:50,270 so sometimes it gets complicated. 143 00:06:50,310 --> 00:06:53,067 And inevitably, it also brings up personal human stakes, 144 00:06:53,067 --> 00:06:56,111 values, life experiences, and sometimes that goes against the 145 00:06:56,111 --> 00:06:57,200 company's decisions. 146 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:01,198 And so I illustrated that with the boss whipping me. 147 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,901 Now, I'm probably exaggerating, maybe a little resentment on my 148 00:07:04,901 --> 00:07:08,649 part. Still, it really illustrates the fact that I had pressure from 149 00:07:08,649 --> 00:07:10,851 the teams, pressure from the customers, 150 00:07:10,851 --> 00:07:14,413 and relentless pressure from management regarding the numbers, 151 00:07:14,413 --> 00:07:17,263 and my last boss completely finished me off because, 152 00:07:17,263 --> 00:07:20,438 well, he added the final straw that broke the camel's back. 153 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,520 So what had to happen happened. 154 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:25,920 I finally decided to get out. 155 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,925 Now, I'm acting crazy here, but obviously I was a bit more 156 00:07:28,925 --> 00:07:30,398 sensible when I left, right? 157 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,013 I didn't tell him "Goodbye, goodbye Mr. President" like in the 158 00:07:33,013 --> 00:07:37,742 commercial. Still, well, I left, except it was a bit 159 00:07:37,742 --> 00:07:40,000 of a pressure cooker for me. 160 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,688 Meaning it wasn't necessarily—well, I was already thinking about it, 161 00:07:42,688 --> 00:07:46,283 but the aftermath hadn't really been thought through yet. But I 162 00:07:46,283 --> 00:07:50,150 left anyway because I had reached a point in my life where, 163 00:07:50,150 --> 00:07:52,320 well, it was too much, I had to go. 164 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,127 So here I'm laughing, I'm laughing with the middle 165 00:07:55,127 --> 00:07:57,360 fingers, but I actually looked more like this. 166 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,075 It's true that it took a lot, a lot of time thinking, 167 00:08:00,075 --> 00:08:03,412 iterating, figuring out what I was ultimately going to do with my 168 00:08:03,412 --> 00:08:05,727 life. Because, well, I didn't want a team anymore, 169 00:08:05,727 --> 00:08:08,278 I didn't want clients anymore, and I didn't want any more 170 00:08:08,278 --> 00:08:10,989 management either. And yet, I had done that for 18 years of my 171 00:08:10,989 --> 00:08:13,795 life and had known nothing else, I had never started a business, 172 00:08:13,795 --> 00:08:15,754 I had never done anything else, and besides, 173 00:08:15,754 --> 00:08:18,454 my background, my family, and my upbringing were more rooted 174 00:08:18,454 --> 00:08:19,560 in salaried employment. 175 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:21,680 So starting a business was tough. 176 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,971 I thought and thought, and I dove into the literature of 177 00:08:25,971 --> 00:08:28,597 what was being done in terms of marketing. 178 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,904 Essentially, within my own field after all. And for those who get 179 00:08:30,904 --> 00:08:33,880 the reference, our dear Simon Sinek in marketing, who basically laid 180 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:36,512 the groundwork for: before asking ourselves what we're 181 00:08:36,512 --> 00:08:39,536 going to do and how we're going to do it—which is what we often jump 182 00:08:39,536 --> 00:08:41,889 to as a shortcut—well, we need to ask ourselves the 183 00:08:41,889 --> 00:08:43,793 questions, the right questions, so why? 184 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:47,249 So the "why"? For me, the cause was obvious: 185 00:08:47,249 --> 00:08:50,653 all the problems and things I no longer wanted to repeat, 186 00:08:50,653 --> 00:08:52,318 but also the human element. 187 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:54,805 That's why I went into sales in the first place; 188 00:08:54,805 --> 00:08:57,799 even if it deteriorated over time, it was to meet people, 189 00:08:57,799 --> 00:09:01,239 the quality of interaction, the differences in personalities, 190 00:09:01,239 --> 00:09:02,960 the cultures I could encounter. 191 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,865 And in fact, I had several opportunities in my career to move 192 00:09:05,865 --> 00:09:08,099 to headquarters, to office roles, and I always 193 00:09:08,099 --> 00:09:09,876 turned them down to stay on the floor, 194 00:09:09,876 --> 00:09:12,160 in the thick of it, and in the moment with people. 195 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:15,623 And then, beyond the "why", there's the "what for", 196 00:09:15,623 --> 00:09:17,774 which looks not so much at the causes, 197 00:09:17,774 --> 00:09:19,160 but rather at the goals. 198 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:22,280 And there, it was pretty clear: it was the kids. 199 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:24,777 Of course, it wasn't just that, it was also about me: 200 00:09:24,777 --> 00:09:26,080 what was I doing with my time? 201 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:28,312 And here, there's a very, very simple exercise that I invite 202 00:09:28,312 --> 00:09:31,211 you to do if you're asking yourselves questions. It's saying, 203 00:09:31,211 --> 00:09:33,573 well, if tomorrow we have a blank page, 204 00:09:33,573 --> 00:09:37,115 an empty weekly planner, and we have no financial limits, 205 00:09:37,115 --> 00:09:39,881 etc., no constraints, how would we fill those slots and 206 00:09:39,881 --> 00:09:41,320 what would we do with our time? 207 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,594 And for me, inevitably, a lot of things filled that up, 208 00:09:45,594 --> 00:09:48,031 but it was naturally enjoying being with my kids, 209 00:09:48,031 --> 00:09:49,993 taking them to school, picking them up, 210 00:09:49,993 --> 00:09:51,539 having quality time with them. 211 00:09:51,580 --> 00:09:53,620 And it was also reconnecting with other things, 212 00:09:53,620 --> 00:09:56,578 like my creative side—I originally did a literature baccalaureate, 213 00:09:56,578 --> 00:09:57,900 so nothing to do with business. 214 00:09:57,900 --> 00:09:59,535 Reading, taking time to read again, 215 00:09:59,535 --> 00:10:01,499 and so on; lots of things emerged from that. 216 00:10:01,820 --> 00:10:04,726 You might say to me, "Romain, that's all well and good, 217 00:10:04,726 --> 00:10:07,890 you have great intentions, but that doesn't make a career, 218 00:10:07,890 --> 00:10:10,731 it doesn't make a living, and it won't put food on your 219 00:10:10,731 --> 00:10:14,160 table." That's why I then thought about it a bit more in terms of 220 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:16,040 Ikigai, for those familiar with it, 221 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:19,047 which allows you to intersect these different elements: 222 00:10:19,047 --> 00:10:22,557 what you love, what you might love but aren't skilled at—so you also 223 00:10:22,557 --> 00:10:23,620 need to be good at it. 224 00:10:23,620 --> 00:10:26,297 But then, so that it doesn't just remain a hobby, 225 00:10:26,297 --> 00:10:28,306 well, it has to meet a specific need, 226 00:10:28,306 --> 00:10:31,921 solve a pain point people have, meet an expectation people have, 227 00:10:31,921 --> 00:10:34,331 and that consequently you can monetize it, 228 00:10:34,331 --> 00:10:38,700 if I dare say. So you're going to ask me, 229 00:10:38,700 --> 00:10:40,647 "Why podcasting?". Because in the end, just like anything else, there 230 00:10:40,647 --> 00:10:42,003 are plenty of media, there are plenty of things, there 231 00:10:42,003 --> 00:10:44,086 would have been—there are endless possibilities. But it turns out 232 00:10:44,086 --> 00:10:46,837 that back then, I was already listening to a huge amount of 233 00:10:46,837 --> 00:10:49,933 podcasts, precisely because I was actually already aspiring to 234 00:10:49,933 --> 00:10:51,769 something else, to changing careers, 235 00:10:51,769 --> 00:10:54,922 and why not having something rather passive where I set things up, 236 00:10:54,922 --> 00:10:56,068 I invest in real estate. 237 00:10:56,110 --> 00:10:57,985 Now, that should resonate with Belgians, 238 00:10:57,985 --> 00:11:00,717 because it's often said that you have a brick in your stomach, 239 00:11:00,717 --> 00:11:02,700 but also the stock market, cryptocurrency, 240 00:11:02,700 --> 00:11:04,362 and I studied all of that a little bit, 241 00:11:04,362 --> 00:11:06,451 thinking to myself, "Here's how, step by step, 242 00:11:06,451 --> 00:11:09,132 I can aspire to something; I know it won't happen overnight, 243 00:11:09,132 --> 00:11:12,028 but maybe one day I could take the pressure off and enjoy my time." 244 00:11:12,750 --> 00:11:16,527 And then, well, little by little it became obvious to me that nowadays 245 00:11:16,527 --> 00:11:19,651 podcasts—99% of podcasts, maybe I'm exaggerating a bit, 246 00:11:19,651 --> 00:11:21,149 but—are interview-based. 247 00:11:21,190 --> 00:11:23,737 And ultimately that's great because it allows me to position myself not 248 00:11:23,737 --> 00:11:26,157 as an expert—I know nothing about finance, I'm right in the middle of 249 00:11:26,157 --> 00:11:28,406 building things up—so instead I'm going to ask myself the right 250 00:11:28,406 --> 00:11:31,366 questions. And so I'll be able to place myself as a learner, 251 00:11:31,366 --> 00:11:33,222 and go meet experts on the subject, 252 00:11:33,222 --> 00:11:35,973 those who have real success, real life experience, 253 00:11:35,973 --> 00:11:38,276 which is why I chose investment, business, 254 00:11:38,276 --> 00:11:41,379 but also success. And what also jumped out at me, 255 00:11:41,379 --> 00:11:44,723 and what I was hearing from people who were already in the podcast 256 00:11:44,723 --> 00:11:48,191 ecosystem, is that podcasting is the best excuse to meet people who 257 00:11:48,191 --> 00:11:49,610 are usually inaccessible. 258 00:11:49,650 --> 00:11:52,520 And that was actually confirmed, as I'll show you later, 259 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:54,047 time and time again in my case. 260 00:11:54,530 --> 00:11:57,831 So, people might say, "Romain, podcasting is great," and 261 00:11:57,831 --> 00:12:01,063 content creators in general, we picture them like this, 262 00:12:01,063 --> 00:12:04,161 with a little drink in hand, either in Bali or in Dubai, 263 00:12:04,161 --> 00:12:07,858 take your pick. But that was maybe the image I had of the job, 264 00:12:07,858 --> 00:12:11,737 too. And people don't actually realize all the work that goes into 265 00:12:11,737 --> 00:12:14,304 it. And actually, well, there are plenty of things I 266 00:12:14,304 --> 00:12:16,289 bumped up against that are pretty tough! 267 00:12:15,410 --> 00:12:17,791 So that gives me the opportunity to ask you the question, 268 00:12:17,791 --> 00:12:20,476 especially since there are lots of podcasters in the audience, 269 00:12:20,476 --> 00:12:24,517 among the viewers. What has actually been the hardest part 270 00:12:24,517 --> 00:12:27,609 you've encountered in your podcasts? 271 00:12:28,410 --> 00:12:30,848 I don't know if the mics are still available? Wait, 272 00:12:30,848 --> 00:12:34,050 no, she left. Maybe we can just do it out loud? 273 00:12:34,090 --> 00:12:35,849 Does anyone want to share on that? 274 00:12:39,170 --> 00:12:40,170 Promotion. 275 00:12:40,170 --> 00:12:42,380 Promotion. We were talking about it over lunch 276 00:12:42,380 --> 00:12:43,630 today; it's clearly not easy. 277 00:12:45,470 --> 00:12:46,790 I think it's editing, right? 278 00:12:47,070 --> 00:12:49,757 Editing, yeah. Spot on, you'll see I had the exact same 279 00:12:49,757 --> 00:12:53,400 issues as you. I think we've all had different phases, 280 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:55,762 from creation to the recording process, 281 00:12:55,762 --> 00:12:58,746 and also, well, the aftermath, the marketing side, 282 00:12:58,746 --> 00:13:01,107 where we encounter various challenges. 283 00:13:01,270 --> 00:13:04,428 I wanted to share this with you because I think it's good to share 284 00:13:04,428 --> 00:13:06,454 so that for those who want to get started, 285 00:13:06,454 --> 00:13:08,718 but also for those going through it right now, 286 00:13:08,718 --> 00:13:10,387 it offers a sense of reassurance. 287 00:13:10,430 --> 00:13:13,510 I've highlighted three points that deeply impacted me. 288 00:13:14,030 --> 00:13:17,550 The first one was, as you said, everything involving 289 00:13:17,550 --> 00:13:21,630 editing; well, I had no skills—and I'm still lacking a lot—in 290 00:13:21,630 --> 00:13:23,950 production and post-production. 291 00:13:23,990 --> 00:13:27,493 And actually, as you know, with a podcast you have to deliver 292 00:13:27,493 --> 00:13:31,557 regularly because there are people listening on the other end who are 293 00:13:31,557 --> 00:13:35,122 used to it. And so it's a kind of steamroller that forces you to 294 00:13:35,122 --> 00:13:37,256 deliver every week, every two weeks, 295 00:13:37,256 --> 00:13:39,390 depending on the schedule you chose. 296 00:13:39,430 --> 00:13:41,623 And I found myself, just like in the picture, 297 00:13:41,623 --> 00:13:44,233 at 2:00 AM with my podcast due to come out the next day, 298 00:13:44,233 --> 00:13:46,724 unable to get it done, wanting to smash my computer 299 00:13:46,724 --> 00:13:49,170 against the wall. And yet, it teaches us resilience—at least 300 00:13:49,170 --> 00:13:51,640 for me, it taught me resilience, telling myself, "You can't give up, 301 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:53,938 there are people waiting on the other end, and no matter what, if 302 00:13:53,938 --> 00:13:56,321 you don't release your podcast, your episode tomorrow, it'll be a 303 00:13:56,321 --> 00:13:58,749 serious blunder; you'll have missed the mark." The 304 00:13:58,749 --> 00:14:01,371 second photo shows that, in fact, it's not just about 305 00:14:01,371 --> 00:14:03,994 sipping cocktails on the beach; there are also long, 306 00:14:03,994 --> 00:14:06,569 hard workdays. And likewise, in terms of pace, 307 00:14:06,569 --> 00:14:08,499 when you're an independent podcaster, 308 00:14:08,499 --> 00:14:09,609 you think you're free. 309 00:14:09,610 --> 00:14:12,101 No, there are also commitments you have to meet, 310 00:14:12,101 --> 00:14:13,409 especially interviews. 311 00:14:13,450 --> 00:14:15,609 I'm from Rouen, I live in Normandy, 312 00:14:15,609 --> 00:14:18,587 and regularly, well, I have to get up at 5:00 a.m. 313 00:14:18,587 --> 00:14:22,309 to catch a train and be more or less on time and ready to host my 314 00:14:22,309 --> 00:14:23,724 guest, often in Paris. 315 00:14:24,130 --> 00:14:27,907 And then, due to scheduling conflicts—something that can happen 316 00:14:27,907 --> 00:14:30,858 from time to time, knock on wood, it hasn't happened 317 00:14:30,858 --> 00:14:33,672 to me often—sometimes you take the train at 5:30, 318 00:14:33,672 --> 00:14:36,349 you go to Paris full of ambition and eagerness, 319 00:14:36,349 --> 00:14:38,685 and then the guest's seat remains empty. 320 00:14:38,810 --> 00:14:42,014 You get stood up, as they say in the industry, 321 00:14:42,014 --> 00:14:45,997 and you actually have to bounce back from that failure, 322 00:14:45,997 --> 00:14:47,988 from that disappointment. 323 00:14:47,990 --> 00:14:51,557 And yet, you have to tell yourself that it's just one guest out of 324 00:14:51,557 --> 00:14:53,645 maybe 80 and perhaps 100 more to come, 325 00:14:53,645 --> 00:14:54,990 so you can't dwell on it. 326 00:14:55,070 --> 00:14:57,392 So, I wanted to share that with you. Now obviously, 327 00:14:57,392 --> 00:15:00,762 the goal isn't to discourage you from relaunching a podcast or 328 00:15:00,762 --> 00:15:02,188 starting one altogether. 329 00:15:02,230 --> 00:15:05,198 And we're at PodBXL, so I also wanted to highlight, 330 00:15:05,198 --> 00:15:08,025 on the flip side, how it's been rewarding for me, 331 00:15:08,025 --> 00:15:11,346 what it changed in my life, and what it really brought me. 332 00:15:11,390 --> 00:15:15,175 And why not also share my key takeaways from it and what I've 333 00:15:15,175 --> 00:15:19,589 learned. The first key takeaway that really stands out for me is 334 00:15:19,589 --> 00:15:21,593 that, in my view, podcasting isn't a sprint; 335 00:15:21,593 --> 00:15:24,237 it's a marathon. Valérie, you were talking about it earlier, 336 00:15:24,237 --> 00:15:26,430 but it's ultimately the same thing with investing. 337 00:15:26,430 --> 00:15:30,528 I think that's also a lesson I learned from the investors I 338 00:15:30,528 --> 00:15:34,798 interviewed: you really can't have everything overnight, 339 00:15:34,798 --> 00:15:38,898 things are built over time, and they gain value over time. 340 00:15:38,900 --> 00:15:42,214 That's the case with podcasting; I launched eight months ago, 341 00:15:42,214 --> 00:15:45,718 and only after eight months am I realizing the impact and what I can 342 00:15:45,718 --> 00:15:49,220 do with my podcast going forward, so you really have to be patient. 343 00:15:50,780 --> 00:15:54,063 Today, so eight months in, I'm at roughly, 344 00:15:54,063 --> 00:15:56,500 say, 79 episodes to be precise. 345 00:15:56,700 --> 00:16:00,077 So that's about 1,000 monthly listens and 6,000 LinkedIn 346 00:16:00,077 --> 00:16:02,300 followers. Now, you can make what you will of those numbers, right? 347 00:16:02,340 --> 00:16:04,155 For some people, that will seem small, 348 00:16:04,155 --> 00:16:07,161 for others, it will seem big; the goal isn't to show off numbers, 349 00:16:07,161 --> 00:16:10,281 it's just to show you what I was explaining earlier—that momentum 350 00:16:10,281 --> 00:16:11,300 and patience pay off. 351 00:16:11,380 --> 00:16:13,408 In my former job, I didn't need to have LinkedIn 352 00:16:13,408 --> 00:16:16,060 followers, clients came to me, I had a physical retail store. 353 00:16:16,100 --> 00:16:18,299 Today, I have to, as we were saying, 354 00:16:18,299 --> 00:16:20,420 market, deliver value to others. 355 00:16:20,460 --> 00:16:22,866 And so we see that starting from 300 followers, 356 00:16:22,866 --> 00:16:26,321 starting from scratch—which is also the title of my podcast—well, 357 00:16:26,321 --> 00:16:27,617 you can build something. 358 00:16:27,980 --> 00:16:30,818 There you go, you just have to give yourself the resources, the drive, 359 00:16:30,818 --> 00:16:35,179 and once again, not give up. The second thing I took away very, 360 00:16:35,179 --> 00:16:37,411 very strongly is: don't dream your life, 361 00:16:37,411 --> 00:16:41,139 truly live it. I think I waited for a long time in retail for something 362 00:16:41,139 --> 00:16:44,600 to happen, for someone to hand me something on a silver platter. 363 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:47,160 Not at all, in fact, I think at some point you really 364 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,800 have to take action, and we can be as perfectionist as 365 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:51,780 possible, whether in our life project, 366 00:16:51,780 --> 00:16:55,320 but ultimately also in podcasting, sometimes we overthink way too far 367 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:57,000 ahead about what we want to set up, 368 00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,280 how we're going to do it, with what equipment? 369 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,792 And ultimately, the value of the podcast, 370 00:17:01,792 --> 00:17:05,749 the asset, only becomes real when you actually launch it and see the 371 00:17:05,749 --> 00:17:08,360 initial feedback and the first iterations. 372 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:10,811 In that regard, if I had done that, 373 00:17:10,811 --> 00:17:13,216 you would never have seen the thumbnail on the right, 374 00:17:13,216 --> 00:17:15,949 the green one; you would have, you might have stayed with the 375 00:17:15,949 --> 00:17:17,040 hideous red thumbnail. 376 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:21,218 There you have it, I didn't have a zone of genius on 377 00:17:21,218 --> 00:17:24,677 Canva, on graphic design software, but in any case, 378 00:17:24,677 --> 00:17:26,512 I launched it. And you can see that, 379 00:17:26,512 --> 00:17:29,174 well, there have been a huge number of iterations of cover art, 380 00:17:29,174 --> 00:17:32,093 of thumbnails, because I actually launched it and the feedback came 381 00:17:32,093 --> 00:17:34,554 in little by little. People told me it was ugly, 382 00:17:34,554 --> 00:17:37,946 they told me it was useless to put a sound wave for my topic, 383 00:17:37,946 --> 00:17:41,056 they told me lots of things, my community fed into it, 384 00:17:41,056 --> 00:17:42,680 and we built what I am today. 385 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:47,760 Another super important thing is to never set limits on who you invite. 386 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:49,996 Now, this might not resonate with everyone because it's strictly in 387 00:17:49,996 --> 00:17:52,002 the context of interviews, but ultimately it can be applied to 388 00:17:52,002 --> 00:17:54,836 the broader context of one's goals. I think you know the saying: if you 389 00:17:54,836 --> 00:17:57,515 want to reach the stars, you have to at least shoot for the 390 00:17:57,515 --> 00:18:00,002 moon. And in fact, that turned out to be very, 391 00:18:00,002 --> 00:18:03,515 very true for my invitations, because I didn't hold myself back 392 00:18:03,515 --> 00:18:06,360 at all; right away, I went after the guests I wanted. 393 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,329 Now, there are several channels, and I think you have to push open 394 00:18:09,329 --> 00:18:12,040 several doors, or even climb through the window sometimes. 395 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,651 And to give you an example: I was lucky enough to interview the 396 00:18:15,651 --> 00:18:18,201 mayor of my city, Rouen, who is quite a busy, 397 00:18:18,201 --> 00:18:19,759 booked-up public figure. 398 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,573 And even so, I wrote to the mayor's office, 399 00:18:22,573 --> 00:18:25,907 and within ten minutes they wrote back and said "No" - 400 00:18:25,907 --> 00:18:28,728 Laughs. And I didn't leave it at that; 401 00:18:28,728 --> 00:18:31,749 I saw he had a LinkedIn account, and I thought maybe he manages it 402 00:18:31,749 --> 00:18:33,400 himself, that he's in charge of it. 403 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,611 I wrote to him on LinkedIn, and as it turned out, 404 00:18:35,611 --> 00:18:38,277 on LinkedIn he agreed, and it happened right after that. 405 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:40,733 So believe in your dreams, in your ambitions, 406 00:18:40,733 --> 00:18:43,317 and don't give up, because great things happen. 407 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,517 Another thing is, don't swim against the tide. 408 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,404 I realized this because I run a podcast about investing and 409 00:18:50,404 --> 00:18:52,843 business success, which is fairly broad overall, 410 00:18:52,843 --> 00:18:54,758 but still very much related to finance. 411 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:58,640 And so I stuck to a specific editorial line for a long time. 412 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:02,623 And in fact, I had deep-seated passions—I mentioned earlier that I 413 00:19:02,623 --> 00:19:06,287 love reading—and I always held myself back a bit when it came to 414 00:19:06,287 --> 00:19:08,709 that. But there's that slight hesitation, 415 00:19:08,709 --> 00:19:10,935 and then there's what we call podfading, 416 00:19:10,935 --> 00:19:13,879 meaning that over time, maybe you lose steam a little, 417 00:19:13,879 --> 00:19:16,430 you get a bit tired of covering the same topics, 418 00:19:16,430 --> 00:19:18,917 but you still have to keep that energy in mind. 419 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:22,154 And that's why I think you have to know how to listen to yourself, 420 00:19:22,154 --> 00:19:23,604 which is what I ended up doing. 421 00:19:23,604 --> 00:19:26,794 And I really wanted to talk to you about it because it was something 422 00:19:26,794 --> 00:19:28,476 that was hard for me, and in the end, 423 00:19:28,476 --> 00:19:30,680 when I let go, when I moved toward what I loved, 424 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,420 well, I achieved quite a few things, 425 00:19:32,420 --> 00:19:34,390 and so I wanted to give you a few examples. 426 00:19:34,430 --> 00:19:37,078 Now, I have so many, because I've had a lot of success 427 00:19:37,078 --> 00:19:39,789 thanks to literature, but I'm going to mention a few. 428 00:19:40,710 --> 00:19:42,228 So the first thing, how it happened, 429 00:19:42,228 --> 00:19:44,100 was that since I love reading, I told myself, 430 00:19:44,100 --> 00:19:45,719 "Romain, you read an enormous amount, 431 00:19:45,719 --> 00:19:47,591 especially to prepare for your interviews, 432 00:19:47,591 --> 00:19:49,868 because you often interview male and female authors. 433 00:19:50,830 --> 00:19:52,350 What can you actually do with that? 434 00:19:52,350 --> 00:19:54,793 You read, and maybe there are people who would like to share and 435 00:19:54,793 --> 00:19:56,586 who love reading as much as you do." And so, 436 00:19:56,586 --> 00:19:58,965 I started by doing book reviews on Sundays, 437 00:19:58,965 --> 00:20:01,078 where I introduced the book I had read, 438 00:20:01,078 --> 00:20:04,714 and instead of giving a summary, I mainly shared what I personally 439 00:20:04,714 --> 00:20:06,827 took away from it, what I thought of it. 440 00:20:06,870 --> 00:20:09,133 And that's just my opinion, but at least it can start a 441 00:20:09,133 --> 00:20:12,066 discussion, so it began like that with a few book reviews on Sundays. 442 00:20:13,030 --> 00:20:15,630 And then one thing led to another, well, I had to read a lot of books. 443 00:20:15,630 --> 00:20:18,663 So I went to bookstores, to my favorite bookstores, 444 00:20:18,663 --> 00:20:21,908 and I took photos of the books to give myself some ideas. 445 00:20:22,510 --> 00:20:24,184 Then after a while, one book review, 446 00:20:24,184 --> 00:20:26,529 two book reviews, it started getting expensive in 447 00:20:26,529 --> 00:20:28,371 terms of books because I had to buy them, 448 00:20:28,371 --> 00:20:29,710 you know, to go through them. 449 00:20:29,750 --> 00:20:32,539 Plus, I would give them away to my community in the end, which helped 450 00:20:32,539 --> 00:20:35,033 build a connection with my community. And I thought to myself, 451 00:20:35,033 --> 00:20:37,640 well, "A book review makes sense for publishing houses. Could I find 452 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:39,970 a publishing house that could sponsor me?". 453 00:20:39,970 --> 00:20:42,996 So yeah, I did a bit of research, and I started contacting publishing 454 00:20:42,996 --> 00:20:45,750 houses. Naturally, I didn't find one because 455 00:20:45,750 --> 00:20:48,130 publishing houses have a budget too. 456 00:20:48,290 --> 00:20:51,486 Nevertheless, I came across a very lovely lady who told me, 457 00:20:51,486 --> 00:20:55,072 "Actually, we don't have a budget, but what I can offer is to put you 458 00:20:55,072 --> 00:20:58,286 on our press list. That way, I'll send you the books for free, 459 00:20:58,286 --> 00:21:01,487 and then down the line you might be able to invite authors more 460 00:21:01,487 --> 00:21:04,939 easily." Well, what I realized later—and all the better for me—is 461 00:21:04,939 --> 00:21:07,891 that publishing houses have every incentive to do that, 462 00:21:07,891 --> 00:21:11,530 since they don't market and don't have budgets for their own authors. 463 00:21:11,570 --> 00:21:14,738 And so it also allows them to build relationships with media outlets 464 00:21:14,738 --> 00:21:17,405 that will talk about their works and help with book sales. 465 00:21:17,490 --> 00:21:21,058 So it started like that; I was able to receive more books 466 00:21:21,058 --> 00:21:23,930 for free, which in a way was one less expense. 467 00:21:23,970 --> 00:21:27,690 And above all, I was able to gain access to wonderful authors. 468 00:21:28,050 --> 00:21:31,512 Notably—I could name many, but the one I wanted to mention 469 00:21:31,512 --> 00:21:35,047 because you might know her is Florence Servan-Schreiber, 470 00:21:35,047 --> 00:21:37,788 who is very well known in the fields of daring, 471 00:21:37,788 --> 00:21:39,807 personal development, and so on. 472 00:21:39,890 --> 00:21:42,239 There you have it. And so on my podcast, I think that wouldn't have 473 00:21:42,239 --> 00:21:43,910 been possible. And the second photo, 474 00:21:43,910 --> 00:21:46,835 well, one thing led to another, by consistently inviting authors, 475 00:21:46,835 --> 00:21:49,498 what happened is that now many authors reach out to me on their 476 00:21:49,498 --> 00:21:51,690 own specifically to get their books talked about. 477 00:21:51,730 --> 00:21:54,513 So you see, we were talking about momentum earlier, 478 00:21:54,513 --> 00:21:56,843 it may have taken six months, seven months, 479 00:21:56,843 --> 00:21:59,561 but actually, Michel often says, "We only see 30%, 480 00:21:59,561 --> 00:22:03,029 stats are only 30% of the aura, of our podcast's momentum." And he 481 00:22:03,029 --> 00:22:05,003 is completely right, I experienced it, 482 00:22:05,003 --> 00:22:08,233 because beyond the listen counts, I saw people reaching out to me 483 00:22:08,233 --> 00:22:10,206 directly to say, "I've seen your style, 484 00:22:10,206 --> 00:22:12,837 I've seen your tone, and I'd love to do an episode with 485 00:22:12,837 --> 00:22:15,050 you to talk about my book," so that happened. 486 00:22:15,210 --> 00:22:18,546 And as magic would have it, an independent publishing house 487 00:22:18,546 --> 00:22:21,879 also came across my podcasts, and the person in charge of the 488 00:22:21,879 --> 00:22:25,482 publishing house didn't feel up to interviewing their authors, 489 00:22:25,482 --> 00:22:27,616 so she contacted me and said, "Romain, 490 00:22:27,616 --> 00:22:30,219 I love your work, I think your podcast is great, 491 00:22:30,219 --> 00:22:32,287 could you do the interviews for me?". 492 00:22:32,330 --> 00:22:35,898 I found myself in Paris for a day doing eight author interviews in a 493 00:22:35,898 --> 00:22:38,364 row, and it was extremely rewarding because, 494 00:22:38,364 --> 00:22:41,995 on top of that, these were themes that weren't always close to mine, 495 00:22:41,995 --> 00:22:44,330 so I also gained a 360-degree perspective. 496 00:22:45,330 --> 00:22:48,481 And so the next step—sorry, I made AI do the work, 497 00:22:48,481 --> 00:22:50,450 Michel, you see I worked well. 498 00:22:50,450 --> 00:22:53,178 Why? It's a projection, but down the road, 499 00:22:53,178 --> 00:22:57,308 I think this will also open doors for me since I want to publish my 500 00:22:57,308 --> 00:22:59,330 own book; I have a story to tell. 501 00:22:59,370 --> 00:23:01,992 And so that will be—I don't think the last step, 502 00:23:01,992 --> 00:23:05,755 but it will be yet another new step in my love affair with literature 503 00:23:05,755 --> 00:23:07,770 and in what the podcast has given me. 504 00:23:08,250 --> 00:23:09,977 Finally, what I wanted to end on is that, 505 00:23:09,977 --> 00:23:11,650 for me, success comes through others. 506 00:23:12,210 --> 00:23:16,657 In fact, I've already explained it to you through the encounters I've 507 00:23:16,657 --> 00:23:20,567 had, through the PR lady who reached out to me and offered me an 508 00:23:20,567 --> 00:23:24,698 opportunity. And then through all the guests I've met; 509 00:23:24,698 --> 00:23:27,939 regularly, in fact, opportunities arise thanks to my 510 00:23:27,939 --> 00:23:29,307 guests who think of me. 511 00:23:29,670 --> 00:23:32,685 Traveling to meet your guests in person creates a very, 512 00:23:32,685 --> 00:23:36,754 very strong bond. And in the end, they become the primary ambassadors 513 00:23:36,754 --> 00:23:38,949 to market your podcast and episodes. 514 00:23:38,990 --> 00:23:41,177 First of all, they do it within their own community, 515 00:23:41,177 --> 00:23:42,550 which is sometimes quite large. 516 00:23:42,630 --> 00:23:44,858 And on top of that, well, whenever they see something 517 00:23:44,858 --> 00:23:47,592 come up—it happens to me very regularly—they think of me and send 518 00:23:47,592 --> 00:23:49,213 me a quick message, they send me a link, 519 00:23:49,213 --> 00:23:51,390 and ultimately it's an extremely virtuous circle. 520 00:23:51,630 --> 00:23:54,204 So there you go, I put together a little collage 521 00:23:54,204 --> 00:23:57,108 that was close to my heart, with Michel in the center, 522 00:23:57,108 --> 00:23:59,880 to show you that there's truly a human side to this, 523 00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:03,377 and that it ties back to what I told you at the very beginning—you 524 00:24:03,377 --> 00:24:05,753 see, through the 'why', the human element, 525 00:24:05,753 --> 00:24:08,710 and literature, I managed to get right where I wanted. 526 00:24:08,750 --> 00:24:11,348 And so anything is possible, even when starting "De Rien". 527 00:24:12,790 --> 00:24:15,764 Ultimately, financially today I might not be any richer, 528 00:24:15,764 --> 00:24:18,550 but I think my true wealth is being here today with you. 529 00:24:18,590 --> 00:24:19,870 So thank you, Brussels. 530 00:24:28,740 --> 00:24:29,979 Are there any questions? 531 00:24:30,260 --> 00:24:33,006 Are there any questions from the audience? Yes, Amandine, coming to 532 00:24:33,006 --> 00:24:34,060 us from Marseille. 533 00:24:35,140 --> 00:24:38,020 Hello, well, I'm sorry, since I'm coming from Marseille, 534 00:24:38,020 --> 00:24:39,220 I missed the beginning. 535 00:24:39,620 --> 00:24:40,980 Were you at "La claque", is that why you're late then? 536 00:24:41,140 --> 00:24:44,623 I was indeed at La Claque, my train was delayed, 537 00:24:44,623 --> 00:24:46,140 anyway, long story. 538 00:24:46,660 --> 00:24:48,395 I have a question about your start, 539 00:24:48,395 --> 00:24:51,628 actually: you showed us numbers after eight months of existence 540 00:24:51,628 --> 00:24:54,141 that were quite impressive, 1000 listens a month, 541 00:24:54,141 --> 00:24:55,578 6000 followers on LinkedIn. 542 00:24:55,620 --> 00:24:59,067 Do you remember how big your community was at the very, 543 00:24:59,067 --> 00:25:01,340 very beginning? The first month? 544 00:25:01,380 --> 00:25:03,703 Yeah, I remember it very well, I even took screenshots on my cell 545 00:25:03,703 --> 00:25:06,026 phone to remind myself where I come from, and that I started from 546 00:25:06,026 --> 00:25:08,409 scratch. As I told you, in my former job, 547 00:25:08,409 --> 00:25:10,780 I didn't need social media at all; clients came to me. 548 00:25:10,780 --> 00:25:13,167 So you see, on LinkedIn, I must have had around 200 or 300 549 00:25:13,167 --> 00:25:15,033 followers, I didn't have an Insta account, 550 00:25:15,033 --> 00:25:17,260 and I still don't have a TikTok account or anything. 551 00:25:18,700 --> 00:25:23,448 And indeed for the listens, well I was hovering around twenty 552 00:25:23,448 --> 00:25:28,284 audio listens. I didn't necessarily focus solely on audio listens 553 00:25:28,284 --> 00:25:31,269 and you see, having been very attached to native audio for a long 554 00:25:31,269 --> 00:25:33,974 time, I actually noticed a shift three or four months ago, 555 00:25:33,974 --> 00:25:36,002 and I think that's the way things are going, 556 00:25:36,002 --> 00:25:38,257 where YouTube is indeed massively taking over. 557 00:25:38,260 --> 00:25:41,542 And I actually put my videos, my episodes which are video and 558 00:25:41,542 --> 00:25:44,364 audio, on YouTube, but originally it was more like: 559 00:25:44,364 --> 00:25:46,531 I was doing video to prepare for shorts, 560 00:25:46,531 --> 00:25:48,828 reels, to have communication materials, 561 00:25:48,828 --> 00:25:51,980 and I didn't work on my YouTube channel any more than that. 562 00:25:52,020 --> 00:25:56,151 And yet, about, I'd say after five months of the podcast's existence, 563 00:25:56,151 --> 00:25:58,359 I saw a real shift where now that's it, 564 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:02,061 I get more views on YouTube alone than on all my audio listening 565 00:26:02,061 --> 00:26:03,340 platforms combined. 566 00:26:03,420 --> 00:26:06,293 So well, that really resonates with me for next season, 567 00:26:06,293 --> 00:26:09,354 telling myself that there's really something happening, 568 00:26:09,354 --> 00:26:12,289 culturally after all, where people are going to develop 569 00:26:12,289 --> 00:26:14,816 that reflex. And so well, even though audio is dear to me, 570 00:26:14,816 --> 00:26:17,570 I'm going to have to factor YouTube in heavily and not neglect it, 571 00:26:17,570 --> 00:26:21,220 you know. I hope that answers your question. 572 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,415 I'd like to know how you make a living, 573 00:26:24,415 --> 00:26:27,793 actually. Because do you have annuities, 574 00:26:27,793 --> 00:26:32,134 well not annuities, but ad revenue (Romain Oger: 575 00:26:32,134 --> 00:26:33,720 Yeah), is that it? 576 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,268 Not at all, actually. Today I don't make a living from it, 577 00:26:36,268 --> 00:26:38,240 I'm just getting by, to be completely honest. 578 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,766 Actually, just like with YouTube, I haven't necessarily had a 579 00:26:41,766 --> 00:26:44,040 proactive commercial approach until now. 580 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,360 Why did I already have a commercial approach? It was to go after great 581 00:26:46,360 --> 00:26:47,062 guests. And that's not easy when you start out with 200 subscribers 582 00:26:47,062 --> 00:26:47,500 because people—well, it's understandable—people are also 583 00:26:47,500 --> 00:26:48,025 putting their brand image forward, their personal branding; they might 584 00:26:48,025 --> 00:26:49,240 have spent fifteen years building it to get to that point. So they 585 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,773 don't want to tarnish it on a podcast that 586 00:26:53,773 --> 00:26:58,441 might not be technical enough, or at least 587 00:26:58,441 --> 00:27:02,893 polished enough. And in fact, I had a really hard time 588 00:27:02,893 --> 00:27:05,720 reaching out to people at the beginning. 589 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:07,590 Fortunately, I came across a lot of super altruistic people who 590 00:27:07,590 --> 00:27:08,713 really wanted to help me, especially the Mayor—I think that 591 00:27:08,713 --> 00:27:13,093 was my third episode. He had no reason to come see me and step up 592 00:27:13,093 --> 00:27:15,478 to the mic, but he did it. 593 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,451 And as I kept asking people, they would check out my podcast 594 00:27:18,451 --> 00:27:20,000 episodes and it reassured them. 595 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:21,775 And that was especially true for authors; from the moment I had 596 00:27:21,775 --> 00:27:23,582 Florence Servan-Schreiber on, a lot of authors contacted me on 597 00:27:23,582 --> 00:27:25,460 their own because they had seen Florence and felt reassured about 598 00:27:25,460 --> 00:27:27,520 the quality. And to answer your question, 599 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,160 well, the advantage is that I had a bit of a buffer because when I 600 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,400 left, I managed to negotiate a payout, 601 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,360 so that helped me build things up. 602 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,429 But you see, if I had to do it over again, 603 00:27:37,429 --> 00:27:40,474 I think I'd try to anticipate things a bit as a side business, 604 00:27:40,474 --> 00:27:42,480 keeping a job to get the engine running. 605 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,396 And now, here I am starting to get 606 00:27:46,396 --> 00:27:49,878 contacts for sponsorships. 607 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:51,147 On the other hand, what I notice a lot is that fewer 608 00:27:51,147 --> 00:27:52,309 and fewer brands are accepting straightforward ad 609 00:27:52,309 --> 00:27:53,957 sponsorships—meaning pre-roll and post-roll, that's rarely done now. 610 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,253 In fact, they demand entire episodes, 611 00:27:56,253 --> 00:27:59,704 which I tend to shy away from because I feel it can shift your 612 00:27:59,704 --> 00:28:03,506 editorial line and sometimes forces you to go where the money is, 613 00:28:03,506 --> 00:28:06,424 ultimately. At the same time, if you set firm boundaries, 614 00:28:06,424 --> 00:28:09,145 I can also understand their side—looking through their 615 00:28:09,145 --> 00:28:12,504 lens—that it gives them real time to explain properly and clearly who 616 00:28:12,504 --> 00:28:15,402 they are and what they do, which they wouldn't have time to do 617 00:28:15,402 --> 00:28:20,221 in an ad. So yeah, I understand why it's done 618 00:28:20,221 --> 00:28:24,968 that way, and I'm going to approach it a 619 00:28:24,968 --> 00:28:27,489 bit more seriously. 620 00:28:27,610 --> 00:28:31,175 Et donc voilà je comprends pourquoi ça se fait comme ça et donc je vais 621 00:28:31,175 --> 00:28:32,928 y aller un peu plus sérieusement. 622 00:28:32,970 --> 00:28:37,198 And did you ever imagine that you'd be able to sell the concept, 623 00:28:37,198 --> 00:28:40,449 build loyalty with a company, and sell a series? 624 00:28:41,490 --> 00:28:45,004 I haven't yet... But if there's a company listening today and they're 625 00:28:45,004 --> 00:28:47,343 up for it, let's go! No, otherwise, 626 00:28:47,343 --> 00:28:48,472 obviously I'd love to. 627 00:28:48,472 --> 00:28:50,671 The advantage is that for me, it's business, 628 00:28:50,671 --> 00:28:52,336 so it can be finance, real estate, 629 00:28:52,336 --> 00:28:53,524 it can be a lot of things. 630 00:28:53,570 --> 00:28:55,535 So I'd like to, and I'm building connections, 631 00:28:55,535 --> 00:28:56,569 especially with banks. 632 00:28:56,569 --> 00:28:58,740 I'd really like them to partner with me over three, 633 00:28:58,740 --> 00:29:00,549 six months, to do something fairly broad, 634 00:29:00,549 --> 00:29:02,881 but yeah. And I think, actually I think now, 635 00:29:02,881 --> 00:29:06,021 in hindsight, I see podcast monetization more like a big 636 00:29:06,021 --> 00:29:08,827 ecosystem. I don't think you can do it just one way, 637 00:29:08,827 --> 00:29:12,366 like through sponsorships and making it so that for three years 638 00:29:12,366 --> 00:29:14,769 you only rely on that with the same company. 639 00:29:14,770 --> 00:29:17,829 I think as a freelancer, I need to be agile and tell myself 640 00:29:17,829 --> 00:29:20,303 maybe at one point it's going to be a one-shot, 641 00:29:20,303 --> 00:29:23,688 hosting a talk show for authors during a speaking engagement. 642 00:29:23,730 --> 00:29:26,437 Maybe it'll be several brands more sporadically, 643 00:29:26,437 --> 00:29:28,435 maybe tomorrow it'll be with my book. 644 00:29:28,435 --> 00:29:31,270 On the other hand, what I'm sure of is that everything 645 00:29:31,270 --> 00:29:35,007 you build from the start actually links together and cements a whole, 646 00:29:35,007 --> 00:29:38,422 which means that later on you have plenty of funnels between the 647 00:29:38,422 --> 00:29:39,969 different ways to monetize. 648 00:29:40,290 --> 00:29:42,653 First of all, thank you so much for the presentation. 649 00:29:42,653 --> 00:29:45,554 I mean, it was cool to have that candid approach and also show that 650 00:29:45,554 --> 00:29:48,507 it's not magic, there's a lot of hard work behind it and everything 651 00:29:48,507 --> 00:29:49,690 (Romain Oger: Thank you). 652 00:29:50,450 --> 00:29:55,005 And I have a baby podcast that's four 653 00:29:55,005 --> 00:29:58,649 months old, which I co-host. 654 00:29:58,690 --> 00:30:00,769 You haven't given birth yet, you've still got a few months left. 655 00:30:00,810 --> 00:30:02,885 Yes, yes. Yes, yes, it's growing, it's developing - 656 00:30:02,885 --> 00:30:07,389 Laughs. But right now we're doing a duo format 657 00:30:07,389 --> 00:30:10,134 where, you know, we have discussions, 658 00:30:10,134 --> 00:30:13,650 but we're going to welcome our first guests soon. 659 00:30:13,930 --> 00:30:18,211 And what I'm wondering is how do you prepare your episodes with 660 00:30:18,211 --> 00:30:21,504 guests to ask them questions that are relevant, 661 00:30:21,504 --> 00:30:25,867 while at the same time not just sitting there asking questions? 662 00:30:25,990 --> 00:30:29,561 And so you can also, as you said, shine through the 663 00:30:29,561 --> 00:30:33,482 other person's success, bounce off things properly, 664 00:30:33,482 --> 00:30:37,226 and have a conversation rather than just a standard 665 00:30:37,226 --> 00:30:38,707 interview, so yeah. 666 00:30:39,030 --> 00:30:41,134 Well yeah. I'm going to have a hard time answering your question in a 667 00:30:41,134 --> 00:30:43,938 structured way because so many things come to mind. So, 668 00:30:43,938 --> 00:30:47,350 off the top of my head, something I struggled with was. 669 00:30:47,550 --> 00:30:50,110 So I always prepare an interview outline anyway. 670 00:30:50,150 --> 00:30:52,570 There are people who do it really well on pure talent, 671 00:30:52,570 --> 00:30:54,716 but for me, during the early interviews—well, 672 00:30:54,716 --> 00:30:57,468 depending on your personality, you always have a bit of that 673 00:30:57,468 --> 00:30:58,624 present-moment stress. 674 00:30:58,950 --> 00:31:01,634 Especially since at the beginning, when I did interviews, I went to 675 00:31:01,634 --> 00:31:03,693 private lounges, hotel lobbies, and brought my own 676 00:31:03,693 --> 00:31:05,991 gear, so I was putting extra pressure on myself and wasn't 677 00:31:05,991 --> 00:31:08,338 enjoying it, I wasn't fully immersed in the interview, so I 678 00:31:08,338 --> 00:31:10,497 stopped doing that. When I have guests, 679 00:31:10,497 --> 00:31:12,769 I'd rather go to a studio to do it, 680 00:31:12,769 --> 00:31:14,369 just to take a load off. 681 00:31:14,370 --> 00:31:18,024 In the end, there isn't a huge cost difference when you look properly, 682 00:31:18,024 --> 00:31:20,290 and it gives you peace of mind on that front. 683 00:31:20,330 --> 00:31:23,018 And so I have my interview outline, why? Because in the very first 684 00:31:23,018 --> 00:31:25,557 interviews—it's already a bit better now—you get totally 685 00:31:25,557 --> 00:31:29,039 different profiles. And I think the best interview is the one that 686 00:31:29,039 --> 00:31:30,690 adapts the most to the guest. 687 00:31:30,810 --> 00:31:34,064 And actually, I've had guests who talked non-stop, 688 00:31:34,064 --> 00:31:38,000 like you ask two questions and they take ten minutes to answer, 689 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,406 which can be great, but they also wander way off topic. 690 00:31:41,450 --> 00:31:43,851 And we also know that for an episode to be listened to and 691 00:31:43,851 --> 00:31:46,408 appeal to the widest audience, you still need to stick to an 692 00:31:46,408 --> 00:31:48,130 editorial line and get punchy answers. 693 00:31:48,290 --> 00:31:51,763 So sometimes it was good to have the outline in front of me to steer 694 00:31:51,763 --> 00:31:54,658 back to the main topic, because you can get caught up in 695 00:31:54,658 --> 00:31:56,450 the discussion too and drift off. 696 00:31:56,490 --> 00:32:00,055 And I've had the exact opposite, meaning you ask the person a 697 00:32:00,055 --> 00:32:03,725 question and they just go, "Yes." And "Yes, 698 00:32:03,725 --> 00:32:06,689 but elaborate..." — nervous laugh, and that's tricky. 699 00:32:06,730 --> 00:32:10,851 So what I usually do—I have a 1-hour format—I'll write down about 700 00:32:10,851 --> 00:32:13,371 18 questions, as relevant as possible, 701 00:32:13,371 --> 00:32:16,423 knowing I'll roughly only ask eleven or twelve, 702 00:32:16,423 --> 00:32:20,544 maybe only five of which were written down because the other five 703 00:32:20,544 --> 00:32:23,979 will be follow-up questions in the heat of the moment. 704 00:32:23,980 --> 00:32:26,598 Anyway, I know that, unlike others, 705 00:32:26,598 --> 00:32:30,700 I always have my laptop on my lap to follow the interview. 706 00:32:30,700 --> 00:32:33,733 And for the prep work, there are two things I like to do: 707 00:32:33,733 --> 00:32:37,576 the first is, I check if the person has already appeared on podcasts. 708 00:32:37,620 --> 00:32:40,870 It happened to me, my first episode was Emeline Siron, 709 00:32:40,870 --> 00:32:44,410 who made it big in real estate, she must have done a dozen big 710 00:32:44,410 --> 00:32:46,532 podcasts. And honestly, as a listener, 711 00:32:46,532 --> 00:32:48,620 it annoys me to always hear the same thing. 712 00:32:48,620 --> 00:32:50,849 Often it's even the same title. With Émeline it was, 713 00:32:50,849 --> 00:32:54,100 at 26 she has over 50 tenants and makes this many euros. 714 00:32:54,340 --> 00:32:56,505 Really, I feel like, well, I might as well listen to the 715 00:32:56,505 --> 00:32:58,986 other podcast, why listen to the new one? So with Émeline, 716 00:32:58,986 --> 00:33:01,777 I made a point of listening to all fifteen podcasts—so that's 717 00:33:01,777 --> 00:33:04,404 potentially 15 hours of listening—but at least I tackled 718 00:33:04,404 --> 00:33:06,321 questions she'd never been asked before, 719 00:33:06,321 --> 00:33:08,620 and hopefully found a slightly more unique angle. 720 00:33:09,740 --> 00:33:12,332 And the second thing I wanted to say, I lost my train of thought, so 721 00:33:12,332 --> 00:33:13,436 it'll come back off the air. 722 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:19,849 Well, hello, thank you. So, sorry, 723 00:33:19,849 --> 00:33:22,079 I haven't listened to your podcast yet. 724 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,497 So, I left some flyers for you at the entrance. Subscribe in droves, 725 00:33:24,497 --> 00:33:25,880 that's the name of the game - Laughter. 726 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,759 And give star ratings on the listening platforms. 727 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:30,633 But I have it, I found it, but I haven't listened yet, to be 728 00:33:30,633 --> 00:33:33,125 honest (Romain Oger: No worries). Could you put back the 729 00:33:33,125 --> 00:33:35,320 slide where we can see all the little thumbnails? 730 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:36,360 Yeah. 731 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:38,719 The question I was asking myself was... 732 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,214 So there are podcasts that are only interviews, always interviews 733 00:33:43,214 --> 00:33:45,347 (Romain Oger: Yeah), there are podcasts that are only 734 00:33:45,347 --> 00:33:48,271 book reviews, etc. (Romain Oger: Yeah). What I think I understand 735 00:33:48,271 --> 00:33:50,974 (Romain Oger: Which means you understood very well) from what I 736 00:33:50,974 --> 00:33:52,960 gathered about yours is that it's more of a mix. 737 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,680 And how, I mean, how do you do it? 738 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,160 What makes you choose this for that one? 739 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:00,920 Is it a matter of opportunity? 740 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,665 Like, I have the interview now so I release it during the week, 741 00:34:04,665 --> 00:34:06,480 or is it a regularity, a cycle? 742 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,160 I mean, what makes you decide that that's how they follow one another? 743 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,043 Actually, right at the very beginning, 744 00:34:12,043 --> 00:34:14,334 I wanted to start a podcast and talk all by myself, 745 00:34:14,334 --> 00:34:16,120 only doing solo bite-sized episodes. 746 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,125 Because I had things to say and I wanted to let that creative spirit 747 00:34:19,125 --> 00:34:21,467 speak, really, and I felt like, you know, expressing myself, 748 00:34:21,467 --> 00:34:23,576 creating. Except I thought to myself, 749 00:34:23,576 --> 00:34:25,729 "Look, I have 200 followers on LinkedIn, 750 00:34:25,729 --> 00:34:27,120 I'm a 'nobody', in quotes. 751 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,248 I'm still going to need people to bring their communities a bit, 752 00:34:30,248 --> 00:34:32,681 bring people to me and generate listens." And so that's why I 753 00:34:32,681 --> 00:34:34,443 decided on a pace of two episodes a week, 754 00:34:34,443 --> 00:34:37,221 where on Wednesdays I'd do an interview and on Sundays I'd do my 755 00:34:37,221 --> 00:34:39,357 solo short episode, which excited me a bit more. 756 00:34:40,240 --> 00:34:42,544 What I'm telling you turned out to be fairly true; 757 00:34:42,544 --> 00:34:45,579 I have guests who really brought me listens and who are genuinely 758 00:34:45,579 --> 00:34:47,600 helping me build overall brand awareness. 759 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:51,679 What I discovered is that I get an enormous amount of pleasure out of 760 00:34:51,679 --> 00:34:54,335 both; it's a completely different kind of enjoyment. The interview is 761 00:34:54,335 --> 00:34:57,606 maybe a bit harder to pull off, because you can't mess up; 762 00:34:57,606 --> 00:35:00,253 sometimes the guests are demanding because, 763 00:35:00,253 --> 00:35:02,480 once again, their image is on the line. 764 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:04,335 But at the same time, the solo short episode, even though 765 00:35:04,335 --> 00:35:06,076 you're freer to talk, is harder because you're talking 766 00:35:06,076 --> 00:35:08,216 all by yourself—you're the one speaking rather than the guest. So 767 00:35:08,216 --> 00:35:10,616 for an hour or half an hour, you have to have things to say, and 768 00:35:10,616 --> 00:35:13,592 above all, not say anything stupid, because nowadays with fact-checking 769 00:35:13,592 --> 00:35:15,560 on the internet, people are quick to correct you. 770 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:19,001 And then my prep work on the solo short episodes is more extensive, 771 00:35:19,001 --> 00:35:21,104 and I have to script more, well, you know, 772 00:35:21,104 --> 00:35:22,959 think through what I'm going to say. 773 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,579 And so that definitely held true, but now, 774 00:35:25,579 --> 00:35:28,270 over time, I'm realizing that, on the other hand, 775 00:35:28,270 --> 00:35:30,438 it's not always true that a well-known, 776 00:35:30,438 --> 00:35:33,920 recognized person with a huge reputation gets a lot of listens. 777 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,433 A lot of it will depend on how they share it, 778 00:35:36,433 --> 00:35:41,160 for starters. And then you also realize that the audience gets 779 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,048 attached to you, and in fact, I have quite a few 780 00:35:44,048 --> 00:35:48,076 solo short episodes that get more listens than the interviews. 781 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,866 And above all, I've had feedback on formats that people really love, 782 00:35:51,866 --> 00:35:53,037 so that reassured me. 783 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,046 In particular, I have a format—so on Sundays, 784 00:35:55,046 --> 00:35:57,685 I'm a bit all over the place, it could be a solo short episode, 785 00:35:57,685 --> 00:36:00,218 and I have another format called "Just Between Us" where, 786 00:36:00,218 --> 00:36:02,592 behind the scenes, I actually explain the adventures 787 00:36:02,592 --> 00:36:04,650 of my podcast, the challenges, the successes, 788 00:36:04,650 --> 00:36:07,665 the failures. And actually, I've had lots of friends in the 789 00:36:07,665 --> 00:36:09,745 ecosystem reach out to me saying, "Yeah, 790 00:36:09,745 --> 00:36:12,254 I love that episode, that format," and I think you 791 00:36:12,254 --> 00:36:15,496 really have to listen to the feedback coming from the listens to 792 00:36:15,496 --> 00:36:18,860 maybe push the envelope further and keep going in that direction. 793 00:36:19,820 --> 00:36:23,420 Would you mind sharing with us how you got your press access? 794 00:36:23,940 --> 00:36:26,120 Yeah, well, actually it's very simple, 795 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:27,970 it's like my slide, like my slide, 796 00:36:27,970 --> 00:36:29,819 I don't remember where I put it... 797 00:36:29,819 --> 00:36:32,396 A spa while sipping a cocktail, I got worked up, 798 00:36:32,396 --> 00:36:34,560 that was it. Actually, the advantage for me is that, on 799 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:36,492 the flip side, I used to be a shopkeeper, so I have no problem 800 00:36:36,492 --> 00:36:38,662 with interpersonal skills or talking to people; on the contrary, 801 00:36:38,662 --> 00:36:41,160 it drives me. And well, just like with the guests actually, 802 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,459 I set myself—well, I didn't set any limits for myself. 803 00:36:43,500 --> 00:36:47,058 So when I went to bookstores to check out the books I liked, 804 00:36:47,058 --> 00:36:50,245 I noted down all the publishing houses on the books, 805 00:36:50,245 --> 00:36:51,578 and I did my research. 806 00:36:51,660 --> 00:36:53,921 So what's interesting, because you see that it's a real 807 00:36:53,921 --> 00:36:56,820 ecosystem, sometimes with a parent company that has lots of branches. 808 00:36:56,980 --> 00:36:58,790 And then after that, well, just like I did for my 809 00:36:58,790 --> 00:37:01,350 guests, I started contacting them. However, I didn't stick to just one 810 00:37:01,350 --> 00:37:04,335 channel. Often you have the somewhat corporate email with a 811 00:37:04,335 --> 00:37:07,598 contact form; I went and added everyone on LinkedIn where I saw 812 00:37:07,598 --> 00:37:10,290 affiliations with a particular publishing house. 813 00:37:10,290 --> 00:37:14,355 I went to contact them on Insta, I reached out through lots of 814 00:37:14,355 --> 00:37:16,763 channels. And what's pretty crazy is that even today, 815 00:37:16,763 --> 00:37:18,668 four months later, I have publishing houses, for 816 00:37:18,668 --> 00:37:21,202 instance, replying to me with an Insta message. So you see, 817 00:37:21,202 --> 00:37:23,604 you could say it's a major publishing house, and actually it 818 00:37:23,604 --> 00:37:25,719 depends on the timing, it depends on who you happen to 819 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,580 reach. Sometimes it's actually the intern who's available and answers 820 00:37:29,580 --> 00:37:33,015 you, but you still get the same result and the same efficiency, 821 00:37:33,015 --> 00:37:35,760 and that's it. So, for me, it was Maxima—which is 822 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,553 Dunod—that got back to me first, partly out of sheer luck, 823 00:37:38,553 --> 00:37:41,810 because originally it started with an intention to get sponsored. 824 00:37:42,130 --> 00:37:44,991 And then on the other hand, I think the whole legitimization 825 00:37:44,991 --> 00:37:47,679 aspect works really well, meaning once people saw that I 826 00:37:47,679 --> 00:37:50,939 started making posts thanking the publishing house—though I never 827 00:37:50,939 --> 00:37:54,084 called it a collaboration, because with 'collaboration' people 828 00:37:54,084 --> 00:37:55,970 immediately assume paid partnership. 829 00:37:56,330 --> 00:37:58,265 Well, they send me free books, but I'm not getting paid. On the 830 00:37:58,265 --> 00:38:01,164 other hand, I tagged them, and I think that reassures other 831 00:38:01,164 --> 00:38:02,170 publishing houses. 832 00:38:02,330 --> 00:38:05,333 And since they genuinely have this need to sell their books and 833 00:38:05,333 --> 00:38:07,064 promote them as widely as possible, 834 00:38:07,064 --> 00:38:08,969 well, now they jump at the opportunity, 835 00:38:08,969 --> 00:38:12,776 that's it. But it's very tough when you talk with authors; 836 00:38:12,776 --> 00:38:15,676 they actually have a really hard time finding podcasts, 837 00:38:15,676 --> 00:38:18,450 radio shows, TV spots, or newspapers to get coverage. 838 00:38:18,690 --> 00:38:20,395 So in the end, my positioning is very, 839 00:38:20,395 --> 00:38:22,934 very good. And you see, that leads me—we were talking about 840 00:38:22,934 --> 00:38:25,538 monetization earlier—there's something I saw done in the US, 841 00:38:25,538 --> 00:38:28,294 Alexane Philippot who does that, he created Podmatch and we don't 842 00:38:28,294 --> 00:38:30,999 have it in Europe. Basically, it connects people who have a 843 00:38:30,999 --> 00:38:33,291 podcast and need to find guests with people who, 844 00:38:33,291 --> 00:38:35,411 conversely, need to talk about themselves, 845 00:38:35,411 --> 00:38:36,730 their book, or what they do. 846 00:38:36,770 --> 00:38:40,490 And so, it's like a dating app, but within the podcast ecosystem. 847 00:38:40,530 --> 00:38:43,860 And him, I think he monetized it a bit like Tinder, 848 00:38:43,860 --> 00:38:45,730 really, so he monetized it. 849 00:38:45,730 --> 00:38:49,409 But you see, everyone is happy because it addresses a real need. 850 00:38:49,890 --> 00:38:52,206 So earlier we mentioned the "La Claque" Podcast festival in 851 00:38:52,206 --> 00:38:54,660 Marseille, we give them a quick shout-out if they're listening 852 00:38:54,660 --> 00:38:56,974 (Romain Oger: Totally), it's a festival we also recommend, 853 00:38:56,974 --> 00:38:59,693 it shares the same culture and the same mindset as us. And so yeah, if 854 00:38:59,693 --> 00:39:01,088 you're listening to us, kudos! 855 00:39:01,090 --> 00:39:03,409 Why am I talking about them? Because there's another community, 856 00:39:03,409 --> 00:39:06,270 and the communities on groups like WhatsApp that exist for podcasters. 857 00:39:06,710 --> 00:39:09,748 And there's a community that I strongly endorse and highly 858 00:39:09,748 --> 00:39:12,228 recommend you join, which is "Podcast Lovers", 859 00:39:12,228 --> 00:39:14,150 I think some people here are members? 860 00:39:14,670 --> 00:39:17,910 There you go, join this community, there are really a lot of great 861 00:39:17,910 --> 00:39:19,726 exchanges. And speaking of which, Romain, 862 00:39:19,726 --> 00:39:22,167 in that community recently there was a discussion and a video, do 863 00:39:22,167 --> 00:39:24,283 you remember? And the topic was "Can you monetize your podcast 864 00:39:24,283 --> 00:39:26,408 interview?" and I'd like you to tell me about it (Romain Oger: Uh, 865 00:39:26,408 --> 00:39:31,104 I might struggle a bit with that). So the idea is to tell a 866 00:39:31,104 --> 00:39:34,180 guest, well, you can come on my show and you pay for me to do a 867 00:39:34,180 --> 00:39:37,387 podcast with you since I'm producing media content for you. 868 00:39:37,430 --> 00:39:39,845 Just so you know, for my channel hrmeetup, 869 00:39:39,845 --> 00:39:42,329 we have half a million listener downloads; 870 00:39:42,329 --> 00:39:44,813 what we do is I provide the service for free, 871 00:39:44,813 --> 00:39:47,918 but if the person gets feedback and wants to come back, 872 00:39:47,918 --> 00:39:49,550 they pay. That's it. 873 00:39:49,830 --> 00:39:52,039 Yes, yes, excuse me, I didn't catch that because Podcast 874 00:39:52,039 --> 00:39:54,623 Lovers is actually quite active, and it's true that we have a lot of 875 00:39:54,623 --> 00:39:57,865 masterclasses and meetings. So what's really great about Podcast 876 00:39:57,865 --> 00:40:01,345 Lovers is that it's a group of industry players who are actually 877 00:40:01,345 --> 00:40:05,089 very proactive, who want to push the ecosystem forward and connect. 878 00:40:06,090 --> 00:40:08,116 Besides, there might be a lot of Belgians, 879 00:40:08,116 --> 00:40:10,490 but we also organize quite a few meetups in Paris. 880 00:40:10,770 --> 00:40:13,238 I'll probably schedule one sometime in September, 881 00:40:13,238 --> 00:40:15,421 so if you happen to be passing through and all, 882 00:40:15,421 --> 00:40:17,431 I think it's great to come exchange ideas, 883 00:40:17,431 --> 00:40:20,646 see how podcasts are evolving, and sometimes talk about the issues 884 00:40:20,646 --> 00:40:22,299 we face. Even if we don't have answers, 885 00:40:22,299 --> 00:40:24,796 sometimes it's just super reassuring to see that others are 886 00:40:24,796 --> 00:40:26,890 going through the exact same thing as us, you know. 887 00:40:28,370 --> 00:40:30,798 So you don't sell your shows for now (Romain Oger: 888 00:40:30,798 --> 00:40:33,210 Pardon?). You don't charge for your shows for now? 889 00:40:33,250 --> 00:40:35,566 Well, that's actually what I was telling the lady. 890 00:40:35,566 --> 00:40:38,596 For me too, if there are people who run businesses and wish to do so, 891 00:40:38,596 --> 00:40:41,463 once again while respecting my editorial line—and that's the 892 00:40:41,463 --> 00:40:42,566 hardest part, not to... 893 00:40:42,810 --> 00:40:44,930 To go over to the dark side of the Force. 894 00:40:44,970 --> 00:40:47,010 But, but yes, yes, we're going to have to get to that. 895 00:40:47,050 --> 00:40:48,090 The call has been put out. 896 00:40:48,730 --> 00:40:50,933 Thanks for the assist, Michel, and thank 897 00:40:50,933 --> 00:40:51,969 you for listening! 898 00:40:55,810 --> 00:40:57,490 Thank you very much, Romain.