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Here is a podcast that actually 
exists in three versions:

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an audio version, 
an audio-graphic version,

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which you are going to discover 
today,

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and an exhibition version, 
too, since I also designed this

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podcast to tour different venues.

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What interests me is notably the 
reaction from the

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audience, to see a bit of what 
happens in that moment.

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So the audio-graphic version you 
are going to discover,

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it was animated and edited by my 
son Nino,

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and the illustrations you will 
discover for each podcast were

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created by Olivier Gourdon, 
an illustrator.

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And so it is the combination of 
audio and visuals.

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What I like to call a "listen and 
see," meaning I didn't want it to

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be either too audio-heavy or too 
visual,

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so that it leaves us the option to 
close our eyes and listen,

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or open our eyes a bit, 
take a look,

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you know, to discover it like that.

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So, I don't want to say any more, 
I'll let you dive into this

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immersive moment and we'll talk 
about it afterwards.

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This is the full-length version, 
then,

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since it exists in episodes; 
here all the episodes will follow

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one after the other, 
so you have reference points each

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time to know how you'll journey 
through this story.

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So, I'll let you discover it.

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Podcast Time presents "Lui devant" 
-

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"Houwa Fi Al-Mouqaddima", 
a podcast by Abderazag Azzouz.

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Woman humming "Tala, 
ta, tam..."

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Episode one, "Return to Origins".

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The year is 2000, 
in the 10th arrondissement of

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Marseille, the Saint-Tronc 
neighborhood;

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here lives Amine, 
58 years old, a sculptor for 40

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years. For several weeks, 
he has been grappling with his

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inner demons; Aziz, 
his friend and agent,

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worried by his silence, 
is desperately trying to reach him.

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Hello, you have reached Amine, 
you can leave a message.

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Amine, are you there?

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Pick up, damn it!

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Walling yourself off in this 
silence isn't going to help you get

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through this. Right, 
I'm coming over this time,

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I'm sick of leaving you messages!

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Pfff.

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I won't be able to do this...

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It is while carving stone that one 
discovers the spirit of the

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material, its own measure.

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The hand thinks and unites thought 
with matter.

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It is the very act of the sculptor 
facing a material whose knowledge

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is acquired only slowly, 
always holding an unexpected

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element that must be resolved 
without ever being able to add

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anything, solely by removal.

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One must carve and not wound the 
stone,

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find the solution when an 
unexpected vein or blemish appears:

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one must know how to struggle with 
the stone,

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caress it, polish it, 
know with what anguish,

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as well as joy, to bring forth the 
form one carries within oneself,

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but which it may also have inspired 
in us according to its texture,

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the very shape of the block one 
chose or found.

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Hey! Is anyone there?

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Hm.

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Is it safe for me to come in?

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Over here.

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What are you getting into?

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Hmmm... I don't know yet.

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Amine, you asked me to manage your

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career, didn't you?

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I, pffff.

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So, are you going to spit it out?

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You're not producing anything right 
now, what's going on with you?

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Hmmm.

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I'm warning you, I'm not leaving

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without an explanation.

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Okay, okay, stay, 
Fadel!

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Sit down. You're right, 
I'm blocked,

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but I think I've finally found the 
solution.

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And what is it?

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You see this? It's a necklace that 
I made for my brother and me when

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we were prisoners in Algeria, 
in Philippeville.

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Well, I mean in Skikda.

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Well, I think if I carve this stone 
again,

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I'll manage to release something 
inside me.

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Hmm. Let me see. Marble, 
one, two,

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five different colors?

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You know we won't find it here, 
right?

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I'd need a sample to start the 
search and have it shipped over.

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Keep it, I'm entrusting it to

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you. Will that work?

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Yes, that'll work, 
that'll work.

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Nokia-type ringtone. Hmmm?

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Amine? It's me. Well, 
listen, we located the quarry in

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Algeria that seems to have what 
you're looking for.

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It's near Skikda, 
you were right.

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There's a deposit that is still 
being mined.

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Great! Order it and have it 
delivered to me by

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Friday before 10 a.m.

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Listen, I've already gotten things 
started.

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The order has gone out.

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00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:03,800
Oh, thank you for being here.

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Salam Amine, a coffee as usual?

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Salam Salim.

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(Humming) Gracias a la vida, 
que me ha dado tanto.

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Perfecto distingo, 
lo negro

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del blanco.

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00:08:08,580 --> 00:08:12,820
Hi Marco. So, how about my 
delivery?

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Yes, it's here, but...

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What's the matter? You look 
bothered.

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No, it's your delivery guy, 
it's weird,

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he took off really fast!

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As if he had seen a ghost.

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Yeah... Alright, 
I'll go check it out.

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What the hell is going on here?

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Female singing: Woman humming 
"Tala, ta, tam..."

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Episode two, "The Joan of Arc 
Threat" (Air raid siren sound).

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It is 1960 in Algeria, 
not far from the Tunisian border,

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in the heart of the marble quarries 
of Djebel Filfila,

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near Philippeville, 
now Skikda.

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Here, every morning, 
some of the workers come from an

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Algerian political prisoner camp.

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Two brothers, recently arrested for 
their support of the FLN,

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20-year-old Hakim and 18-year-old 
Amine,

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are among them. In this quarry, 
a marble unique in the world is

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extracted, composed of five 
different colors,

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a coloration due to the proximity 
of iron and lead mines.

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Put that out, you.

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Come on, come on, 
we don't have all day,

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get a move on! And you, 
are you working?

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Hey Hakim, your little brother 
there is going to take a nasty

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rifle butt to the head - 
Chuckle.

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The lieutenant won't miss him!

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Shut the fuck up, 
snitch, or you're the one getting

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hit! What on earth is he doing?

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Amine? Amine?

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00:10:36,550 --> 00:10:41,205
So, daydreamer? Alright, 
fall in, departure in two minutes

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in columns by barrack.

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Tools in your bags, 
move it, let's go.

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Charlie to Bravo, 
do you copy?

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Affirmative, go ahead.

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We're on our way, it'll take us 1 
hr.

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(Radio response: Roger, Charlie)

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Fuck, I'm bleeding

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You had it coming. What the hell 
were you doing?

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There are stones, 
when you break them, they take

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shapes and...

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Halt! Take off their chains.

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Put down your bags.

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One step back. About-face.

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On my whistle, everyone into their 
barrack.

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The night is well advanced and most 
of the prisoners are sleeping,

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except for one man. Amine is on the 
alert,

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looking around, seeming to wait for 
the right moment to do something.

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He holds a canvas bag in his hand, 
which he gently empties in front of

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him. Stones of various sizes and 
colors spread out.

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One by one, he picks them up and 
looks at them,

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fascinated. In his hand, 
they suddenly seem to come to life

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when the moonlight shines upon 
them.

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He smiles. A childhood memory has 
just resurfaced.

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Two children scramble over rocks, 
equipped with small hammers.

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They work hard to chip away pieces 
of rock.

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They compare their finds under 
their father's benevolent gaze.

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Amine? (Whisper).

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Hmmm

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Listen Amine, I'm fed up.

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We're getting out of this rathole, 
otherwise I'm going to go crazy.

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Why don't we wait?

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This war will end someday.

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00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:37,640
Wait. We're going to dig a tunnel.

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What? What are you talking about?

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00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:40,959
We have nothing to dig with.

167
00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,479
We'll manage. We'll steal tools if 
we have to.

168
00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:45,880
Where will we go? They'll search 
for us across the entire country.

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00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:47,359
Listen, just listen, 
damn it...

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00:12:47,359 --> 00:12:47,830
Listen,

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00:12:47,830 --> 00:12:48,830
Hmmm I'm listening...

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I found a spot to dig, 
it's right under the showers and

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goes towards the barbed wire, 
then the woods. (Guard snoring)

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00:12:53,244 --> 00:12:56,949
Wait. Okay, I've already timed the 
patrol rounds.

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We can work in shifts of at least 
30 minutes.

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We'll be far from the watchtowers; 
it's the shortest route.

177
00:13:01,750 --> 00:13:03,550
And what if we hit rock, 
what do we do?

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00:13:03,790 --> 00:13:05,750
With the forest nearby, 
little chance of that.

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00:13:05,790 --> 00:13:07,470
Listen to me, you'll do what I tell 
you.

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00:13:07,510 --> 00:13:08,550
We'll go to France.

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00:13:08,590 --> 00:13:10,350
There's no way they'll think to 
look for us there.

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00:13:10,390 --> 00:13:12,007
But we'll have to take a boat 
(guard snoring),

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00:13:12,007 --> 00:13:13,110
they're all watched, for sure.

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Amine... The big ones, 
yes, but not the small boats that

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00:13:16,071 --> 00:13:18,030
are in league with the FLN at Port 
Saint Louis.

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00:13:18,070 --> 00:13:20,044
If we have to be separated, 
it's fine, we'll meet up at the

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café in Marseille, 
where Father used to write back

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00:13:21,808 --> 00:13:23,030
home from. Do you remember?

189
00:13:25,990 --> 00:13:28,593
At the back of the barracks, 
a clandestine digging operation has

190
00:13:28,593 --> 00:13:31,229
been underway for several nights. 
Amine is standing,

191
00:13:31,229 --> 00:13:33,630
listening for the slightest sound 
outside.

192
00:13:33,990 --> 00:13:36,870
He tracks the time using a 
makeshift hourglass.

193
00:13:37,270 --> 00:13:40,110
He is scared. Between him and his 
brother,

194
00:13:40,110 --> 00:13:42,710
a rope tied around their waists 
connects them.

195
00:13:43,070 --> 00:13:45,269
Hakim, for his part, 
is worried.

196
00:13:45,350 --> 00:13:48,610
He broods over information received 
from an FLN messenger.

197
00:13:49,130 --> 00:13:52,206
A psychological warfare school has 
opened in Philippeville,

198
00:13:52,206 --> 00:13:53,449
the Jeanne d'Arc school.

199
00:13:53,850 --> 00:13:57,569
Since then, many prisoners have 
been taken there as guinea pigs.

200
00:13:58,210 --> 00:14:02,608
Deep down, Hakim knows that Amine 
won't be able to withstand torture.

201
00:14:02,770 --> 00:14:07,261
And neither will he. He resumes 
digging using a shovel

202
00:14:07,261 --> 00:14:09,250
improvised from a tin can.

203
00:14:09,570 --> 00:14:13,848
He pushes forward relentlessly, 
until his hands bleed.

204
00:14:13,930 --> 00:14:17,480
This threat becomes a fresh 
motivation for him to finish this

205
00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:19,289
tunnel as quickly as possible.

206
00:14:31,570 --> 00:14:35,210
Shit, damn it, we've hit rock.

207
00:14:35,210 --> 00:14:36,210
What?

208
00:14:36,450 --> 00:14:40,866
Marble. That's not normal around 
here,

209
00:14:40,866 --> 00:14:42,844
huh... Shit. Alright, we have to

210
00:14:42,844 --> 00:14:43,968
break it, otherwise we can't get 
through.

211
00:14:44,010 --> 00:14:45,770
I knew it, we'll never make it.

212
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:47,040
We don't have anything for this, 
fuck.

213
00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,680
Stop whining. We'll steal whatever 
we need.

214
00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:51,558
Don't forget the tools from the 
quarry.

215
00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:52,880
We're going to get caught for 
sure...

216
00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:55,004
Listen, Amine... oh, to hell with

217
00:14:55,004 --> 00:14:56,120
it... (Owl hoots)

218
00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:07,398
I remind you that your bags must 
contain a club hammer,

219
00:15:07,398 --> 00:15:09,120
chisel, and steel wire.

220
00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,479
You are responsible for them.

221
00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,519
For every missing tool, 
30 days in the hole.

222
00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:16,760
Empty your bags.

223
00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:19,080
Hey, but... My tools...

224
00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:20,920
Someone stole my tools!

225
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:23,120
I know it was you, 
Hakim.

226
00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:25,040
I know it was you, 
you dirty raghead!

227
00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,199
I know what you're plotting, 
you and your brother.

228
00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,200
And Albert's word, 
you're going to pay for this!

229
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:30,840
Take him away!

230
00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,320
No! I'm not taking the fall for 
someone else!

231
00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,640
It's a setup! It wasn't me!

232
00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:36,720
It wasn't me!

233
00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:40,600
Why did you choose that guy?

234
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,160
He's a snitch. He got what he 
deserved.

235
00:15:50,950 --> 00:15:51,950
Female singing: Woman humming 
"Tala, ta, tam..."

236
00:15:53,110 --> 00:15:55,630
Episode three, "The Escape".

237
00:16:20,830 --> 00:16:24,766
Inside the progressing tunnel, 
the two brothers know they are now

238
00:16:24,766 --> 00:16:26,550
one meter from the camp fence.

239
00:16:26,950 --> 00:16:30,723
A rope serves as their measuring 
line thanks to knots tied every

240
00:16:30,723 --> 00:16:34,589
meter. Amine strikes with his 
chisel wrapped in a rag.

241
00:16:34,790 --> 00:16:38,068
His thinness is an advantage here 
because the passage is narrow.

242
00:16:38,190 --> 00:16:40,350
But the hardest part is the lack of 
air.

243
00:16:40,830 --> 00:16:44,061
At this moment, he is one with the 
stone he is working,

244
00:16:44,061 --> 00:16:46,630
unable to protect himself from the 
chips.

245
00:16:47,110 --> 00:16:49,670
A piece has broken off; 
he examines it,

246
00:16:49,670 --> 00:16:52,350
then smiles. He just got an idea.

247
00:17:03,150 --> 00:17:04,270
Here, have a drink.

248
00:17:08,030 --> 00:17:10,950
Out of breath - Thanks, 
bro. Hey, Hakim?

249
00:17:11,350 --> 00:17:12,350
What is it?

250
00:17:13,270 --> 00:17:15,091
Hey, that rock in the background, 
don't you think

251
00:17:15,091 --> 00:17:16,110
it kind of looks like Mom...

252
00:17:15,830 --> 00:17:17,110
What? What about that rock?

253
00:17:17,150 --> 00:17:18,430
And what's that in your hand 
anyway?

254
00:17:19,870 --> 00:17:21,270
Oh, this? It's for you.

255
00:17:21,550 --> 00:17:22,990
It's a necklace I made last night.

256
00:17:23,190 --> 00:17:24,350
This one's for you.

257
00:17:24,390 --> 00:17:25,510
Each with our own name.

258
00:17:25,790 --> 00:17:26,790
Don't you like it?

259
00:17:26,830 --> 00:17:29,769
A necklace. Don't you have anything 
better to do? You're supposed to

260
00:17:29,769 --> 00:17:32,189
keep watch, Amine, 
keep watch, not daydream.

261
00:17:32,270 --> 00:17:33,430
All right, I'm going down.

262
00:17:33,430 --> 00:17:34,190
So stay alert.

263
00:17:34,190 --> 00:17:34,630
Yeah, yeah...

264
00:17:34,190 --> 00:17:42,658
Hey,

265
00:17:42,658 --> 00:17:55,360
Hakim!

266
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,640
All clear, we can go through, 
send the gear!

267
00:17:58,960 --> 00:17:59,960
Come back up!

268
00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:02,062
I was already inside, damn it... He

269
00:18:02,062 --> 00:18:03,240
should've just come, shit.

270
00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:04,523
Go get the bags and the shoe

271
00:18:04,523 --> 00:18:05,560
polish, I'll go first.

272
00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,279
The two brothers are just a few 
meters from their freedom.

273
00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:16,640
Hakim is the eldest.

274
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,760
In his mind, he has to be the first 
one out.

275
00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:22,997
With the rope around his waist 
connecting him to his brother,

276
00:18:22,997 --> 00:18:25,781
he counts the minutes, 
hoping the patrol schedule hasn't

277
00:18:25,781 --> 00:18:28,402
changed. His face blackened with 
shoe polish,

278
00:18:28,402 --> 00:18:29,518
he pokes his head out.

279
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,537
The coast is clear; 
they only have five minutes to get

280
00:18:32,537 --> 00:18:35,859
out. Crawling to the tree line, 
under cover,

281
00:18:35,859 --> 00:18:38,720
he can finally give Amine the 
signal to go.

282
00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:40,280
A sharp tug on the rope.

283
00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:44,907
They are now face to face, 
still roped together and stunned by

284
00:18:44,907 --> 00:18:47,739
their feat. They are beyond the 
barbed wire.

285
00:18:48,220 --> 00:18:51,089
Little do they know that their 
actions barely precede those of

286
00:18:51,089 --> 00:18:52,137
another man in France.

287
00:18:52,220 --> 00:18:55,608
Abdelkader Guelmine, 
member of the Algerian National

288
00:18:55,608 --> 00:18:56,860
Movement (M.N.A.).

289
00:18:57,140 --> 00:19:01,907
He will escape in the same manner 
with 39 inmates from the

290
00:19:01,907 --> 00:19:04,341
Mauzac penitentiary camp on

291
00:19:04,341 --> 00:19:05,860
November 5, 1961.

292
00:19:05,980 --> 00:19:08,340
Come on, let's split up, 
we'll have a better chance.

293
00:19:08,540 --> 00:19:09,740
We said we wouldn't do it like 
that.

294
00:19:09,780 --> 00:19:11,899
Listen, brother, 
listen, we don't have time to talk.

295
00:19:11,900 --> 00:19:14,036
They'll quickly see we're not in 
our beds on the next round. Listen

296
00:19:14,036 --> 00:19:16,343
to me, brother, it's going to be 
fine, it's going to be fine, we're

297
00:19:16,343 --> 00:19:19,290
going to make it. You head to the 
port and find a fishing boat,

298
00:19:19,290 --> 00:19:20,660
I'll go through Tunisia.

299
00:19:20,700 --> 00:19:22,994
Then we meet up in Marseille at the 
Café du Père,

300
00:19:22,994 --> 00:19:24,936
in a month, the second Friday at 10 
a.m.,

301
00:19:24,936 --> 00:19:27,179
understand? The second Friday at 10 
a.m.

302
00:19:27,540 --> 00:19:28,980
Come here, go on.

303
00:19:29,700 --> 00:19:32,820
Go, brother, go. I love you.

304
00:19:36,420 --> 00:19:37,820
Bravo to Charlie, 
do you copy?

305
00:19:37,860 --> 00:19:38,940
Yes, go ahead!

306
00:19:39,340 --> 00:19:43,150
We found the exit point, 
only two ropes are left.

307
00:19:43,190 --> 00:19:44,190
Shit.

308
00:19:44,590 --> 00:19:45,590
Lieutenant?

309
00:19:45,710 --> 00:19:47,150
Plan Épervier! Move!

310
00:19:47,390 --> 00:19:48,390
Copy, Charlie.

311
00:20:06,750 --> 00:20:08,270
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

312
00:20:38,310 --> 00:20:41,454
Humming while

313
00:20:41,454 --> 00:20:43,550
driving.

314
00:20:43,950 --> 00:20:46,389
The man driving this dump truck is 
Boualem.

315
00:20:46,510 --> 00:20:48,190
A worker in a quarry.

316
00:20:49,550 --> 00:20:54,244
La la la la la, la la la la la, 
la la la la

317
00:20:54,244 --> 00:20:56,430
la, la la la la la.

318
00:20:57,070 --> 00:21:01,171
He is about to reverse when he 
spots a man with a bloodied face in

319
00:21:01,171 --> 00:21:02,590
his rearview mirror.

320
00:21:02,990 --> 00:21:05,510
Who is that? Who is this guy?

321
00:21:05,550 --> 00:21:08,790
Just as he is about to get out, 
a military patrol arrives.

322
00:21:15,710 --> 00:21:18,790
Boualem looks for the man, 
but he has disappeared.

323
00:21:22,110 --> 00:21:24,029
Turn off your engine and get down 
slowly.

324
00:21:28,070 --> 00:21:29,230
What are you doing here?

325
00:21:29,270 --> 00:21:30,418
I came to get some

326
00:21:30,418 --> 00:21:31,870
stones. Why, sir?

327
00:21:31,910 --> 00:21:33,790
Lieutenant! It's Lieutenant! Got 
it?

328
00:21:34,390 --> 00:21:36,214
You have no business being this 
close to the camp. This

329
00:21:36,214 --> 00:21:37,270
is a military zone.

330
00:21:37,310 --> 00:21:39,180
Okay, okay, don't get upset.

331
00:21:39,180 --> 00:21:40,420
I'm leaving, I'm leaving.

332
00:21:40,420 --> 00:21:41,420
Don't move!

333
00:21:41,500 --> 00:21:43,260
What does this guy want from me?

334
00:21:43,460 --> 00:21:44,660
This land belongs to us.

335
00:21:47,820 --> 00:21:49,220
Didn't you see anyone on the road?

336
00:21:49,260 --> 00:21:51,339
No, nothing sir, 
nothing at all.

337
00:21:51,420 --> 00:21:52,820
Only dust, maybe?

338
00:21:52,860 --> 00:21:53,940
Damn it, damn it!

339
00:21:54,820 --> 00:21:56,699
Charlie to Bravo, 
do you copy?

340
00:21:57,220 --> 00:21:58,220
Yes, go ahead, Charlie.

341
00:21:58,220 --> 00:21:59,620
Do you have anything at the harbor?

342
00:22:00,220 --> 00:22:01,728
Nothing, Lieutenant, 
and you?

343
00:22:01,728 --> 00:22:03,874
(Lieutenant Jacques: 
Damn it) Lieutenant?

344
00:22:03,874 --> 00:22:05,380
Roger, Charlie, mission over.

345
00:22:07,020 --> 00:22:08,060
You're still here?

346
00:22:08,100 --> 00:22:10,180
Come on, get moving, 
chop chop!

347
00:22:10,260 --> 00:22:12,899
Yes, yes, I'm adjusting my engine 
and I'm off.

348
00:22:12,940 --> 00:22:14,780
Let's go! Fall back, 
fall back!

349
00:22:27,180 --> 00:22:29,220
Boualem glances in his rearview 
mirror.

350
00:22:29,340 --> 00:22:30,620
The man has reappeared.

351
00:22:30,900 --> 00:22:32,419
He gestures for him to climb in.

352
00:22:32,540 --> 00:22:35,738
The latter hesitates, 
fiddling with some kind of

353
00:22:35,738 --> 00:22:39,400
necklace, then complies, 
slipping under the rear tarp.

354
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,240
This one, you won't get him.

355
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:44,680
Boualem's word on it! Wallah!

356
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:47,467
He

357
00:22:47,467 --> 00:22:53,160
hums...

358
00:22:56,040 --> 00:23:00,218
Meanwhile, somewhere at sea, 
Amine is also hidden under a tarp,

359
00:23:00,218 --> 00:23:04,160
on a fishing boat arriving not far 
from the Marseille coast.

360
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:32,380
Episode four, "Memory Cracks".

361
00:23:32,380 --> 00:23:33,640
(Sound of village bells)

362
00:24:14,630 --> 00:24:16,950
Salam Amine! A coffee, 
as usual?

363
00:24:16,950 --> 00:24:19,790
Salam Salim. An Americano today, 
please.

364
00:24:19,950 --> 00:24:21,109
Go on, take a seat, 
my son.

365
00:24:21,270 --> 00:24:22,550
Tfadel, tfadel, I'll be right 
there.

366
00:24:26,310 --> 00:24:29,234
At the back of the bar, 
Amine has his eyes glued to the

367
00:24:29,234 --> 00:24:32,230
front door. The same ritual for 40 
years.

368
00:24:32,710 --> 00:24:36,091
He scrutinizes every 60-year-old 
North African man,

369
00:24:36,091 --> 00:24:38,270
hoping to find his brother's eyes.

370
00:25:01,630 --> 00:25:05,990
Salim? Did anyone come asking for 
me after I left last time?

371
00:25:06,190 --> 00:25:08,230
No Amine, not this time.

372
00:25:08,710 --> 00:25:10,630
Hmm. Goodbye Salim.

373
00:25:10,670 --> 00:25:12,630
Goodbye, my son. See you next 
Friday.

374
00:25:32,350 --> 00:25:33,350
Who's that?

375
00:25:33,990 --> 00:25:36,440
That's Amine, Ahmed's son.

376
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:38,060
A former worker at the Perasso

377
00:25:38,060 --> 00:25:39,080
quarries, like you.

378
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,720
Why is he asking you who came?

379
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:43,880
He's been coming here for 40 years.

380
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:45,759
He's still waiting for his brother 
to arrive.

381
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:46,800
Huh? What are you saying?

382
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,680
Acércate, Pedro! Is that how you 
say it?

383
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:50,880
"Come closer" in Spanish?

384
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,520
Yes, of course! And for you, 
it's tguedem?

385
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:55,679
That's it, my polyglot friend.

386
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,280
Anyway, come closer, 
Pedro.

387
00:25:59,120 --> 00:26:02,035
(Pedro: Hmm tell me) Amine and his 
brother are former FLN members,

388
00:26:02,035 --> 00:26:05,306
like their father. They escaped 
from a prisoner camp during the

389
00:26:05,306 --> 00:26:09,038
Algerian War. They were supposed to 
meet up here after the escape.

390
00:26:09,120 --> 00:26:11,158
And the other one never made it.

391
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,413
Well, damn! How...

392
00:26:13,413 --> 00:26:15,840
how sad for him, 
poor guy.

393
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:17,360
And his father?

394
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,269
His father? He died just before 
their escape,

395
00:26:20,269 --> 00:26:23,239
in Paris, during the October '61 
demonstration.

396
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:24,960
Hmm, wow!

397
00:26:37,020 --> 00:26:38,020
Humming while driving

398
00:26:51,060 --> 00:26:53,060
Hakim! Hey, Hakim!

399
00:27:00,980 --> 00:27:02,940
Hakim, stop your machine for a 
second!

400
00:27:14,780 --> 00:27:16,660
Uh, what's going on, 
Boualem? Why are you so worked up?

401
00:27:17,060 --> 00:27:18,660
We have a special order.

402
00:27:18,660 --> 00:27:20,579
It's for a block of Filfila marble.

403
00:27:20,620 --> 00:27:23,180
What! The stone of five colors? Who 
wants a block like that, anyway?

404
00:27:24,380 --> 00:27:26,620
Ah! A sculptor from France asked 
for it.

405
00:27:26,620 --> 00:27:27,620
That's great, isn't it?

406
00:27:28,780 --> 00:27:30,314
Hmm... And where am I supposed to 
get this

407
00:27:30,314 --> 00:27:31,420
rock? We don't do that here.

408
00:27:31,420 --> 00:27:33,750
Do you remember where I picked you 
up 40 years ago? (Hakim: Hmm...).

409
00:27:34,310 --> 00:27:36,870
You didn't know anything, 
not even your family name.

410
00:27:36,870 --> 00:27:38,611
Just that necklace, 
with your first name (Hakim:

411
00:27:38,611 --> 00:27:42,109
Hmm...). Ah, that's it, 
I see you've understood.

412
00:27:42,630 --> 00:27:44,710
Well, it's at Djebel Filfila.

413
00:27:45,190 --> 00:27:47,270
Now, Sonarem runs it.

414
00:27:47,710 --> 00:27:49,549
I sorted everything out with them.

415
00:27:49,870 --> 00:27:51,990
Come on, you'll find it, 
I'm sure.

416
00:27:52,710 --> 00:27:55,150
Hmm... Listen, Boualem, 
I'm no talker.

417
00:27:55,230 --> 00:27:57,270
You're the salesman, 
my thing is stone.

418
00:27:57,310 --> 00:27:59,830
The talking is done, 
it's settled. It's for this Friday.

419
00:27:59,870 --> 00:28:02,794
Plus you'll do the delivery, 
it'll do you good to see some

420
00:28:02,794 --> 00:28:03,942
people. Come on! Go, 
go!

421
00:28:03,942 --> 00:28:08,470
(Hakim: Hmm...). In any case, 
the deal is done.

422
00:28:08,510 --> 00:28:11,223
And besides, my daughter is getting 
married,

423
00:28:11,223 --> 00:28:13,190
so I'm not free. But you are.

424
00:28:15,390 --> 00:28:16,549
Hmm... Congratulations on your 
daughter.

425
00:28:16,550 --> 00:28:19,069
Thank you, thanks. That means a lot 
coming from you.

426
00:28:19,550 --> 00:28:21,350
Come on, don't make that face!

427
00:28:26,110 --> 00:28:27,960
Stubborn as a rock! (Hakim: 
Hmm...) What a hardhead this one

428
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:28,960
is!

429
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,885
Hakim didn't think returning to 
where Boualem had saved him from

430
00:28:44,885 --> 00:28:47,040
the soldiers would take so much out 
of him.

431
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:59,132
After loading the stone, 
he cannot help looking at it,

432
00:28:59,132 --> 00:29:02,000
caressing it. He feels a deep 
turmoil washing over him.

433
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:03,840
He struggles to pull his hand away 
from the block.

434
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:05,647
What's happening to me?

435
00:29:05,647 --> 00:29:08,560
(out of breath) What's happening to 
me?

436
00:29:53,940 --> 00:29:56,915
In the hollow of this mountain, 
like a child nestled against its

437
00:29:56,915 --> 00:29:59,890
mother, Hakim's caravan casts 
shadows on the stones by the glow

438
00:29:59,890 --> 00:30:02,494
of a fire. Hakim is drunk and 
delirious,

439
00:30:02,494 --> 00:30:05,853
staring for hours at this stone 
that is now in the back of his

440
00:30:05,853 --> 00:30:09,940
truck. In his armchair, 
he finally sinks into a dream that

441
00:30:09,940 --> 00:30:13,497
propels him 40 years back, 
onto the path of his escape.

442
00:30:20,380 --> 00:30:21,380
He dreams / remembers Ahhhh (sound 
of diving).

443
00:30:26,380 --> 00:30:30,469
Hakim's memory cracks, 
and begins to let through a light

444
00:30:30,469 --> 00:30:31,687
from elsewhere.

445
00:30:32,730 --> 00:30:34,410
Amine? Amine! Amine...

446
00:30:51,810 --> 00:30:52,810
Female singing: Woman humming 
"Tala, ta, tam..."

447
00:30:53,890 --> 00:30:57,090
Episode five, "So far, 
so close".

448
00:31:13,730 --> 00:31:16,538
All along the way to the port of 
Algiers,

449
00:31:16,538 --> 00:31:19,008
Hakim fought the urge to turn back,

450
00:31:19,008 --> 00:31:21,647
but a strange force kept him in 
place.

451
00:31:22,370 --> 00:31:24,692
Guided by an energy from elsewhere,

452
00:31:24,692 --> 00:31:27,789
it brought him back 40 years later 
to Marseille,

453
00:31:27,789 --> 00:31:28,870
the mother city.

454
00:31:36,870 --> 00:31:37,870
Nahdine!

455
00:32:07,510 --> 00:32:08,510
Uh, excuse me!

456
00:32:09,030 --> 00:32:10,230
Thank you! Thank you!

457
00:32:10,230 --> 00:32:11,230
Thank you!

458
00:32:12,510 --> 00:32:13,510
What?

459
00:32:13,950 --> 00:32:15,350
What do you mean? Are you giving me 
a ride?

460
00:32:16,190 --> 00:32:19,790
Uh... Yes. Listen, 
ma'am.

461
00:32:19,790 --> 00:32:20,993
I'm looking for a house in

462
00:32:20,993 --> 00:32:22,310
St-Tronque, do you know it?

463
00:32:22,830 --> 00:32:26,510
Ma'am! Let me see, 
I won't bite.

464
00:32:26,950 --> 00:32:28,860
Ahhh! Why, it's in the 10th 
arrondissement!

465
00:32:29,140 --> 00:32:31,580
It's the Saint-Tronc neighborhood, 
not Saint-Tronque.

466
00:32:33,100 --> 00:32:35,660
Listen, I'm in a hurry, 
I have to deliver before 10:00.

467
00:32:36,100 --> 00:32:38,401
Uh... It's looking pretty tight for 
10:00. Anyway,

468
00:32:38,401 --> 00:32:40,100
straight ahead, comrade!

469
00:32:40,540 --> 00:32:42,820
Did you come all this way just to 
deliver gravel?

470
00:32:43,460 --> 00:32:45,900
(Hakim: Hmm) I saw your license 
plate. You're not from around here.

471
00:32:46,180 --> 00:32:48,220
It's called rock. It's marble.

472
00:32:48,540 --> 00:32:50,590
Alright, your marble, 
your rock... What's so special

473
00:32:50,590 --> 00:32:52,620
about it? Turn right.

474
00:32:52,620 --> 00:32:54,020
There, yes, perfect.

475
00:32:54,420 --> 00:32:55,420
There isn't any.

476
00:32:55,900 --> 00:32:56,900
What?

477
00:32:57,100 --> 00:32:59,036
There isn't any here. It comes from 
back home. It has

478
00:32:59,036 --> 00:33:00,060
five colors and it's...

479
00:33:00,100 --> 00:33:02,499
Slow down a bit. So here, 
it's that way.

480
00:33:02,540 --> 00:33:04,420
So turn right and you're there.

481
00:33:04,420 --> 00:33:07,220
I thought so, it's the Perasso 
quarries road.

482
00:33:07,500 --> 00:33:10,449
Funny, when I was little, 
there was also a sculptor living

483
00:33:10,449 --> 00:33:12,100
there. And now another one.

484
00:33:12,220 --> 00:33:13,675
Well, maybe see you soon, 
Mr.

485
00:33:13,675 --> 00:33:15,540
Chatterbox. And don't worry!

486
00:33:15,540 --> 00:33:18,660
I was listening carefully: 
five-color marble...

487
00:33:18,700 --> 00:33:20,500
five colors... Five 
colors...(Hakim: Hmm...)

488
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,280
He hums.

489
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:57,499
Ah, there you

490
00:33:57,499 --> 00:33:59,200
are! Hallelujah!

491
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:00,120
What?

492
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,549
Do you understand French? (Hakim: 
Hmm...) You were supposed to be

493
00:34:02,549 --> 00:34:04,800
here at 10:00. Now the boss has 
left.

494
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,160
Salam alaykum, I couldn't find it.

495
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,160
What do I do? Do I wait for him?

496
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,526
Alaykum salam. Alright, 
alright.

497
00:34:13,526 --> 00:34:16,440
Ah, back home! Always 40 years late 
(Hakim:

498
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,680
Hmm...). Come on, 
put the block in his workshop.

499
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,316
It's at the back. Careful with my 
April flowers!

500
00:34:23,316 --> 00:34:24,333
(Hakim: Hmm... ah).

501
00:34:24,333 --> 00:34:25,949
You see, in the back, 
over there.

502
00:34:26,590 --> 00:34:28,070
On the rockery, over there at the 
back (Hakim: Yeah). Got it?

503
00:34:29,070 --> 00:34:30,070
Mmmmmm... Okay.

504
00:35:08,910 --> 00:35:12,309
Hakim is now in front of Amine's 
worktable.

505
00:35:12,990 --> 00:35:14,630
There must be a pencil around here.

506
00:35:14,670 --> 00:35:16,734
He has to push some drawings aside. 
But suddenly,

507
00:35:16,734 --> 00:35:19,110
his hand stops on a stack of 
papers.

508
00:35:20,910 --> 00:35:22,870
What is depicted leaves him 
paralyzed.

509
00:35:23,350 --> 00:35:25,931
He begins to tremble (Hakim: 
What is this?). The sketch shows

510
00:35:25,931 --> 00:35:27,110
two men in chains.

511
00:35:27,110 --> 00:35:27,790
What is that?

512
00:35:27,790 --> 00:35:32,229
In rags, carrying a bag, 
one slightly ahead of the other.

513
00:35:48,350 --> 00:35:51,110
Hey! El loco! That one's completely 
crazy.

514
00:35:59,150 --> 00:36:01,628
Amine has been sitting in his 
armchair for hours.

515
00:36:01,710 --> 00:36:03,990
At his feet, a canvas bag.

516
00:36:04,430 --> 00:36:05,950
He stares at the delivered stone.

517
00:36:06,150 --> 00:36:09,950
His racing mind seems to have 
connected with the marble.

518
00:36:10,230 --> 00:36:14,210
In this altered state, 
he stands up and opens the bag,

519
00:36:14,210 --> 00:36:16,922
taking out a white outfit, 
a mallet,

520
00:36:16,922 --> 00:36:18,910
a chisel, and also chains.

521
00:36:19,710 --> 00:36:23,110
Dressed like this, 
with the chain hanging around his

522
00:36:23,110 --> 00:36:24,500
neck, he sets to work.

523
00:36:29,900 --> 00:36:33,899
With the first blow, 
a tear wells up and rolls down.

524
00:36:42,140 --> 00:36:43,460
You need to eat a little. Amine.

525
00:36:44,580 --> 00:36:46,579
Come on, son, eat!

526
00:36:47,620 --> 00:36:49,620
You've already been locked in for 
three days.

527
00:36:50,060 --> 00:36:54,459
Amine? Amine? All right, 
I'm coming in.

528
00:36:55,980 --> 00:36:58,420
Wait, what?! Why are you dressed 
like that?

529
00:36:59,420 --> 00:37:01,810
Marco stands dumbfounded in front 
of Amine,

530
00:37:01,810 --> 00:37:05,040
whose features are gaunt, 
his gaze seemingly hanging on the

531
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:06,460
edge of a certain madness.

532
00:37:07,020 --> 00:37:11,380
He opens his mouth and speaks 
delusional words.

533
00:37:12,900 --> 00:37:15,839
The stone itself wants to become 
something,

534
00:37:15,839 --> 00:37:18,460
and I cannot impose my will on the 
stone.

535
00:37:19,740 --> 00:37:23,119
The stone will become something 
regardless of my will.

536
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,280
Everything, every stone, 
has a destiny like that.

537
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,372
You don't make it do what you want;

538
00:37:30,372 --> 00:37:33,640
you follow, you follow, 
you follow.

539
00:37:35,240 --> 00:37:36,960
Now, leave me alone.

540
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:43,164
Several seasons passed during which 
Amine developed a special

541
00:37:43,164 --> 00:37:45,750
relationship with this marble: 
love,

542
00:37:45,750 --> 00:37:49,920
fear, hatred. So many states 
combined with the heat of the shed

543
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,648
during the heatwave, 
which on certain days drove him

544
00:37:52,648 --> 00:37:53,760
into a kind of trance.

545
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,491
In winter, wearing his fingerless 
gloves,

546
00:37:56,491 --> 00:37:59,748
his hands worked automatically, 
making it seem as though it had

547
00:37:59,748 --> 00:38:01,160
been waiting for just that.

548
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,935
During this period, 
several childhood memories rushed

549
00:38:04,935 --> 00:38:07,531
back into his mind, 
and one of them would leave an even

550
00:38:07,531 --> 00:38:09,787
deeper mark on him. On the way to a 
quarry,

551
00:38:09,787 --> 00:38:13,674
Amine and his brother would pass by 
a sculptor's house every morning

552
00:38:13,674 --> 00:38:15,037
before going to school.

553
00:38:15,240 --> 00:38:18,813
The sculptor was grappling with a 
block of stone that evolved each

554
00:38:18,813 --> 00:38:20,240
day toward its final form.

555
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:24,910
A horse. Amine remembers asking his 
brother that question:

556
00:38:24,910 --> 00:38:27,110
"How did he know there was a horse 
inside?"

557
00:38:31,470 --> 00:38:32,550
What on earth is this?

558
00:38:33,550 --> 00:38:34,590
My necklace?

559
00:38:38,430 --> 00:38:39,670
That's impossible!

560
00:38:40,430 --> 00:38:41,910
No, that can't be!

561
00:38:52,150 --> 00:38:53,790
Hello? Amine?

562
00:38:54,430 --> 00:38:56,270
Hello? Hello?

563
00:38:56,830 --> 00:38:57,830
Come here!

564
00:38:58,190 --> 00:39:00,990
What's going on? Amine?

565
00:39:01,230 --> 00:39:02,230
Amine?

566
00:39:11,270 --> 00:39:12,350
Answer, damn it!

567
00:39:26,630 --> 00:39:28,350
Marco, have you seen Amine?

568
00:39:28,590 --> 00:39:29,870
He must be in his studio.

569
00:39:30,790 --> 00:39:32,508
Listen, I've been trying to call 
him for a while now, and he isn't

570
00:39:32,508 --> 00:39:33,790
answering. Come quickly!

571
00:39:33,790 --> 00:39:36,630
I don't understand what's 
happening. Amine?

572
00:39:36,830 --> 00:39:38,670
Amine, damn it! Where are you?

573
00:39:38,990 --> 00:39:40,750
Why weren't you answering earlier?

574
00:39:40,150 --> 00:39:42,470
Mother of God! Amine!

575
00:39:42,790 --> 00:39:43,790
Amine!

576
00:39:43,990 --> 00:39:46,630
Marco, hurry! He's trapped under 
the sculpture!

577
00:39:48,310 --> 00:39:49,710
Amine! Amine!

578
00:39:50,110 --> 00:39:52,382
Go on, Marco! Pull it.

579
00:39:52,382 --> 00:39:54,110
Now! Gently! Gently!

580
00:39:54,390 --> 00:39:55,790
Everything is fine, 
Amine.

581
00:39:55,950 --> 00:39:57,150
It's going to be okay, 
Amine.

582
00:39:57,310 --> 00:39:59,550
Don't worry! It's going to be okay!

583
00:40:16,070 --> 00:40:19,070
(Hospital beep) Mmmh mmmh mmmh mmmh 
mmmh.

584
00:40:19,140 --> 00:40:20,340
Easy, Amine! Easy.

585
00:40:20,340 --> 00:40:21,340
Stay still.

586
00:40:22,980 --> 00:40:23,980
Here.

587
00:40:24,260 --> 00:40:26,620
What? Another necklace?

588
00:40:26,860 --> 00:40:29,220
But I thought that... You only had 
one?

589
00:40:30,060 --> 00:40:31,858
Isn't that... Isn't that your name 
on it?

590
00:40:32,780 --> 00:40:34,900
You're going to have to take me to 
that quarry.

591
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:22,059
There

592
00:41:22,059 --> 00:41:24,734
you

593
00:41:24,734 --> 00:41:27,409
go.

594
00:41:27,409 --> 00:41:31,868
Well,

595
00:41:31,868 --> 00:41:36,327
I hope

596
00:41:36,327 --> 00:41:39,002
you

597
00:41:39,002 --> 00:41:45,244
enjoyed

598
00:41:45,244 --> 00:41:47,919
it.

599
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:59,405
That is one of the existing 
versions for this

600
00:41:59,405 --> 00:42:03,560
story. So, I can take questions

601
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:04,960
right away.

602
00:42:17,710 --> 00:42:22,060
How did they end up in Algeria if 
the parents were already in France,

603
00:42:22,060 --> 00:42:23,070
what happened?

604
00:42:23,190 --> 00:42:24,835
Well yes, because I don't say that 
-

605
00:42:24,835 --> 00:42:29,270
Laughs. So, kind of...

606
00:42:29,270 --> 00:42:32,270
I actually built my podcast a bit 
like Star Wars.

607
00:42:32,590 --> 00:42:36,383
There are episodes set later, 
you understand the beginning,

608
00:42:36,383 --> 00:42:37,870
right, it was kind of...

609
00:42:38,750 --> 00:42:40,892
In the construction of the podcast,

610
00:42:40,892 --> 00:42:43,963
in the sound processing, 
you have two time periods,

611
00:42:43,963 --> 00:42:45,748
you have the 2000s and the 60s.

612
00:42:45,910 --> 00:42:49,865
So I deliberately did—I discussed 
it with a sound designer,

613
00:42:49,865 --> 00:42:53,108
I said, "How do we make 
black-and-white sound?".

614
00:42:54,710 --> 00:42:57,937
I said, "How can we show that, 
just by listening,

615
00:42:57,937 --> 00:42:59,389
we're in another era?

616
00:42:59,750 --> 00:43:01,870
What can take us there?".

617
00:43:02,350 --> 00:43:05,910
But, yes, actually there are things 
I don't say.

618
00:43:05,950 --> 00:43:09,982
So it's: in my writing, 
it was also about giving myself the

619
00:43:09,982 --> 00:43:13,342
possibility to maybe do another 
season as well,

620
00:43:13,342 --> 00:43:16,110
and tell what happened before, 
you see.

621
00:43:17,180 --> 00:43:20,036
Another season to tell what 
happened after,

622
00:43:20,036 --> 00:43:22,999
right. So I don't know if I'll do 
it,

623
00:43:22,999 --> 00:43:25,697
but what I told myself was, 
indeed,

624
00:43:25,697 --> 00:43:29,512
at a certain point, 
we understand that the father

625
00:43:29,512 --> 00:43:32,100
passed away. So, 
during a protest.

626
00:43:32,140 --> 00:43:34,232
So we can understand that he was an 
activist,

627
00:43:34,232 --> 00:43:35,700
right, that he's, 
that he's...

628
00:43:35,900 --> 00:43:40,655
He was active, and that his two 
young sons maybe wanted to do

629
00:43:40,655 --> 00:43:43,664
the same thing, and that at one 
point,

630
00:43:43,664 --> 00:43:45,895
they did the same thing too.

631
00:43:46,060 --> 00:43:48,930
So in Marseille, 
because in Marseille as in other

632
00:43:48,930 --> 00:43:51,240
cities, there were quite a few 
actions,

633
00:43:51,240 --> 00:43:54,250
there were attacks, 
there were militant actions to

634
00:43:54,250 --> 00:43:56,420
actually bring this event to 
France,

635
00:43:56,420 --> 00:43:58,940
so there would really be a debate 
in France.

636
00:43:59,380 --> 00:44:01,634
And for me, in my narrative 
construction,

637
00:44:01,634 --> 00:44:04,468
it was that, well, 
these two young brothers wanted to

638
00:44:04,468 --> 00:44:07,045
do like their father, 
put themselves in danger,

639
00:44:07,045 --> 00:44:09,365
and the father sent them to Algeria 
to hide,

640
00:44:09,365 --> 00:44:10,460
at an uncle's place.

641
00:44:10,940 --> 00:44:13,149
But they continued their activism 
there,

642
00:44:13,149 --> 00:44:16,304
and they got caught there, 
right, that's basically how they

643
00:44:16,304 --> 00:44:17,818
ended up in the camp, 
you see.

644
00:44:17,820 --> 00:44:20,534
That's what I told myself, 
but, well,

645
00:44:20,534 --> 00:44:24,127
now I can say it, 
but people who discover the story

646
00:44:24,127 --> 00:44:26,755
can also build their own narrative,

647
00:44:26,755 --> 00:44:30,780
actually, beforehand; 
I wanted it to remain very open.

648
00:44:36,660 --> 00:44:37,900
Congratulations.

649
00:44:37,900 --> 00:44:38,620
Thank you.

650
00:44:38,620 --> 00:44:40,180
A really interesting podcast.

651
00:44:40,220 --> 00:44:44,108
Actually, I'm left wanting more, 
because I'm wondering,

652
00:44:44,108 --> 00:44:48,563
have you planned other episodes 
where the two brothers will meet,

653
00:44:48,563 --> 00:44:50,420
or in the end, is Hakim dead?

654
00:44:52,420 --> 00:44:57,347
Well, actually, Hakim is the one 
delivering the stone,

655
00:44:57,347 --> 00:45:00,775
so he is still alive, 
but he left again,

656
00:45:00,775 --> 00:45:03,100
actually. When he delivered the 
stone to...

657
00:45:03,660 --> 00:45:05,568
he doesn't know that he's 
delivering the stone to his

658
00:45:05,568 --> 00:45:07,388
brother's place, 
he's just delivering a stone to a

659
00:45:07,388 --> 00:45:10,210
sculptor. And at that sculptor's 
place,

660
00:45:10,210 --> 00:45:13,290
in the workshop, 
he actually discovers preliminary

661
00:45:13,290 --> 00:45:16,510
sketches of the sculpture his 
brother is going to make.

662
00:45:16,510 --> 00:45:19,940
And in those sketches, 
there are drawings that depict,

663
00:45:19,940 --> 00:45:23,666
that resonate with his own story, 
when they were prisoners,

664
00:45:23,666 --> 00:45:26,052
well, they were also, 
they had chains,

665
00:45:26,052 --> 00:45:27,910
they were, they were dressed.

666
00:45:27,950 --> 00:45:30,470
So something happens, 
but he doesn't really understand.

667
00:45:32,150 --> 00:45:35,899
Well, in the narrative, 
we understand that during the

668
00:45:35,899 --> 00:45:39,480
escape, Hakim fell, 
he took a fall and was rescued by

669
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:44,227
Boualem, who was a laborer looking 
for stone and who later became his

670
00:45:44,227 --> 00:45:47,040
boss, actually. And he developed 
amnesia,

671
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,590
actually; the only thing connecting 
him to his past is his necklace,

672
00:45:50,590 --> 00:45:52,830
he's actually forgotten everything 
else.

673
00:45:52,830 --> 00:45:56,130
So, there you go, 
he's troubled, actually,

674
00:45:56,130 --> 00:45:59,888
there are things starting to stir 
up a bit inside,

675
00:45:59,888 --> 00:46:02,270
but yeah, he's very much alive.

676
00:46:03,150 --> 00:46:04,271
But have you planned

677
00:46:04,271 --> 00:46:05,390
other episodes, or?

678
00:46:05,430 --> 00:46:09,950
No. It's that freedom that I want 
to leave.

679
00:46:09,990 --> 00:46:14,798
Because what I injected into this 
creation includes both

680
00:46:14,798 --> 00:46:19,407
fictional elements and things from 
reality that I drew

681
00:46:19,407 --> 00:46:21,410
from the research work.

682
00:46:21,610 --> 00:46:25,295
So, it's about seeing whether what 
I'm saying in this story—it's also

683
00:46:25,295 --> 00:46:28,917
to pique the listeners' curiosity, 
"Why is he telling us about that,

684
00:46:28,917 --> 00:46:31,330
etc. Is it true? Where is this 
happening?".

685
00:46:31,370 --> 00:46:33,932
For me, I think it's like in 
cinema,

686
00:46:33,932 --> 00:46:36,583
well, like in any work of art 
really,

687
00:46:36,583 --> 00:46:40,294
the viewer, the listener, 
has to do their part too,

688
00:46:40,294 --> 00:46:42,768
meaning they must also be active.

689
00:46:42,810 --> 00:46:46,968
So they also need to ask themselves 
questions and think,

690
00:46:46,968 --> 00:46:50,330
well, "Where is he taking us with 
this story?"

691
00:46:50,650 --> 00:46:52,410
In any case, thank you and 
congratulations!

692
00:46:59,810 --> 00:47:01,370
First of all, bravo! Great!

693
00:47:01,410 --> 00:47:05,862
I would love to be able to achieve 
that in terms of sound design and

694
00:47:05,862 --> 00:47:08,089
soundscape, it's really great.

695
00:47:08,130 --> 00:47:10,091
And I think there are, 
well there you have it,

696
00:47:10,091 --> 00:47:11,570
the story of two brothers as well.

697
00:47:11,570 --> 00:47:14,678
Which shows that with podcasts, 
you can do so many very different

698
00:47:14,678 --> 00:47:16,579
things, there's really great 
freedom.

699
00:47:16,620 --> 00:47:19,539
So here we're more into fiction in 
a way.

700
00:47:19,580 --> 00:47:21,580
So where does this topic come from?

701
00:47:21,580 --> 00:47:23,140
Did people tell it to you?

702
00:47:23,180 --> 00:47:27,579
And then you decided to tell it, 
is it like your family?

703
00:47:27,620 --> 00:47:30,031
Anyway (Adderazag Azzouz: 
So) where does this story about

704
00:47:30,031 --> 00:47:31,260
these two brothers come from?

705
00:47:32,020 --> 00:47:34,633
In creative work, 
there are always triggers that

706
00:47:34,633 --> 00:47:37,937
spark writing. For me, 
my writing trigger was:

707
00:47:37,937 --> 00:47:42,718
I was heading to work one morning 
and I actually crossed paths

708
00:47:42,718 --> 00:47:45,719
with two guys who, 
on an uphill street,

709
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:48,625
were walking up, 
stepping like that,

710
00:47:48,625 --> 00:47:52,960
tap, tap. And I was actually 
transfixed by these two people,

711
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:54,180
and I followed them.

712
00:47:54,340 --> 00:47:58,729
And I felt like one looked like a 
big brother and the other a little

713
00:47:58,729 --> 00:48:01,040
brother. And it started from there;

714
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:02,660
it triggered the writing.

715
00:48:02,980 --> 00:48:05,529
So it, it gave me a foundation, 
really,

716
00:48:05,529 --> 00:48:09,276
and then I let the text sit, 
without really knowing what I

717
00:48:09,276 --> 00:48:11,506
wanted to do with it: 
a comic book,

718
00:48:11,506 --> 00:48:12,700
a movie, and so on.

719
00:48:12,740 --> 00:48:15,355
So it sat around for quite a few 
years,

720
00:48:15,355 --> 00:48:18,980
and at a certain point, 
well, I felt a bit more ready,

721
00:48:18,980 --> 00:48:23,534
so I picked that text back up and 
revisited it in resonance with my

722
00:48:23,534 --> 00:48:27,049
own history. My parents are 
Algerian,

723
00:48:27,049 --> 00:48:29,860
and I drew from that at that point.

724
00:48:29,860 --> 00:48:32,689
I was actually reading things about 
the Algerian War,

725
00:48:32,689 --> 00:48:36,420
etc. And it gradually fed into it, 
really.

726
00:48:36,860 --> 00:48:41,219
And those two people who were in my 
surroundings were

727
00:48:41,219 --> 00:48:45,084
transformed into two people 
climbing a slope,

728
00:48:45,084 --> 00:48:48,157
coming out of a prison camp, 
a quarry,

729
00:48:48,157 --> 00:48:52,813
and who, and who are talking, 
and who are going to escape,

730
00:48:52,813 --> 00:48:54,894
planning an escape, 
etc.

731
00:48:55,060 --> 00:48:58,595
So it's not directly the subject 
that—well,

732
00:48:58,595 --> 00:49:03,373
about the Algerian War, 
but rather the fiction that carried

733
00:49:03,373 --> 00:49:06,717
me, which I wanted to anchor to 
something,

734
00:49:06,717 --> 00:49:09,683
you see. I needed to build a 
foundation,

735
00:49:09,683 --> 00:49:12,694
and the more I read things about 
Algeria,

736
00:49:12,694 --> 00:49:16,590
the more I was able to inject 
elements into the story,

737
00:49:16,590 --> 00:49:19,970
to develop it. So yeah, 
it was more along those lines.

738
00:49:19,970 --> 00:49:21,370
The quarry actually exists.

739
00:49:21,730 --> 00:49:25,237
The quarry actually exists, 
so I did some research,

740
00:49:25,237 --> 00:49:28,090
so I documented myself on the 
quarry part.

741
00:49:28,130 --> 00:49:31,249
So in the Skikda region, 
it really exists.

742
00:49:31,890 --> 00:49:34,857
So next to Skikda, 
there really was the Jeanne d'Arc

743
00:49:34,857 --> 00:49:38,583
school that was created at that 
time and trained French officers

744
00:49:38,583 --> 00:49:42,099
to... It was really the whole 
period of preparation for,

745
00:49:42,099 --> 00:49:45,001
how should I put it, 
urban counter-guerrilla warfare,

746
00:49:45,001 --> 00:49:48,664
actually. So how to prepare, 
and that was where the beginnings

747
00:49:48,664 --> 00:49:50,210
of torture took place, 
etc.

748
00:49:50,410 --> 00:49:51,850
So, that turned out to be true.

749
00:49:52,210 --> 00:49:54,423
When I mention, actually, 
the camp,

750
00:49:54,423 --> 00:49:56,785
the escape in France, 
that's real too,

751
00:49:56,785 --> 00:49:58,408
it's a newspaper article.

752
00:49:58,610 --> 00:50:01,718
So there really was an escape from 
a camp in France,

753
00:50:01,718 --> 00:50:05,418
because what very few people know 
is that there were camps in

754
00:50:05,418 --> 00:50:07,490
Algeria, and camps in France too.

755
00:50:07,850 --> 00:50:11,248
In Algeria, there were both camps 
where FLN militants were

756
00:50:11,248 --> 00:50:14,091
imprisoned, but also, 
what is very little known,

757
00:50:14,091 --> 00:50:16,310
is that there were regroupment 
camps.

758
00:50:16,350 --> 00:50:20,212
That is to say, actually, 
it's like in France when,

759
00:50:20,212 --> 00:50:23,521
with the maquis, 
to prevent civilians from

760
00:50:23,521 --> 00:50:26,554
supporting the maquis fighters, 
well,

761
00:50:26,554 --> 00:50:30,966
they ended up attacking, 
ransacking entire hamlets that

762
00:50:30,966 --> 00:50:33,630
actually fed the maquis fighters.

763
00:50:33,670 --> 00:50:37,660
And so, what happened in Algeria—so 
Sylvie Thénault,

764
00:50:37,660 --> 00:50:41,383
who is a prominent historian of 
Algerian history,

765
00:50:41,383 --> 00:50:45,197
whom I interviewed, 
told me, described all of this a

766
00:50:45,197 --> 00:50:48,207
bit. Populations were actually 
displaced,

767
00:50:48,207 --> 00:50:52,095
so it numbers in the millions of 
people who were displaced,

768
00:50:52,095 --> 00:50:54,870
and very, very little is known 
about that.

769
00:50:54,950 --> 00:50:57,678
So, entire families, 
and that's what created massive

770
00:50:57,678 --> 00:51:00,587
poverty because these were people 
who lived off the land,

771
00:51:00,587 --> 00:51:03,750
etc. And who were displaced into 
camps.

772
00:51:03,790 --> 00:51:07,246
So regroupment camps, 
and then all the internment camps,

773
00:51:07,246 --> 00:51:09,838
because the first camps were rather 
camps,

774
00:51:09,838 --> 00:51:11,998
let's say run by the governor, 
well,

775
00:51:11,998 --> 00:51:14,686
civilians. And afterward we had the 
military camps,

776
00:51:14,686 --> 00:51:16,440
and that was a whole different 
story.

777
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:20,097
And there, that's where there is a 
link with your own work regarding

778
00:51:20,097 --> 00:51:23,714
Argentina, where it was those same 
military officers who came from

779
00:51:23,714 --> 00:51:28,698
Indochina. And there was a sort of 
revenge taking place in Algeria,

780
00:51:28,698 --> 00:51:32,622
and often there was torture, 
running these camps,

781
00:51:32,622 --> 00:51:36,460
etc. And so it's exactly the same 
people we find working as trainers

782
00:51:36,460 --> 00:51:39,253
in Latin America, 
with what you were describing with

783
00:51:39,253 --> 00:51:42,503
the CIA, right. And then all those 
countries:

784
00:51:42,503 --> 00:51:46,281
Argentina, Chile, 
where, where it all blended

785
00:51:46,281 --> 00:51:50,931
together between them, 
there was financial and material

786
00:51:50,931 --> 00:51:53,450
support in terms of population

787
00:51:53,450 --> 00:51:55,000
control, you know.

788
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:58,442
So, I just have a quick question, 
but a more technical one,

789
00:51:58,442 --> 00:51:59,960
and then I'll pass the mic back.

790
00:51:59,960 --> 00:52:01,787
You were, so you're almost a 
director,

791
00:52:01,787 --> 00:52:03,614
did you supervise the actors 
because,

792
00:52:03,614 --> 00:52:05,440
in fact, there were—they had 
scripts?

793
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:08,380
How did you go about it there, 
in a studio?

794
00:52:08,380 --> 00:52:10,307
Did you tell them, 
"Here's the tone, it needs to be

795
00:52:10,307 --> 00:52:12,259
this, it needs to be that"? How did 
that happen?

796
00:52:12,420 --> 00:52:17,240
Well, actually, it's work that I 
carried out for almost three years,

797
00:52:17,240 --> 00:52:19,100
since I had time on my side.

798
00:52:19,100 --> 00:52:21,071
I didn't have the financial means, 
so I...

799
00:52:21,071 --> 00:52:23,660
it's... I self-produced, 
like you were saying as well.

800
00:52:23,660 --> 00:52:26,423
We often start out like that; 
otherwise we never manage to do it

801
00:52:26,423 --> 00:52:27,858
if we have to wait for producers.

802
00:52:28,340 --> 00:52:32,385
And in this case, 
I wore the hats of writer,

803
00:52:32,385 --> 00:52:36,314
screenwriter, producer, 
and technical

804
00:52:36,314 --> 00:52:38,740
coordinator all at once.

805
00:52:39,220 --> 00:52:43,740
I have a friend who is in acting, 
whom I asked to be the

806
00:52:43,740 --> 00:52:46,578
director, to direct the actors.

807
00:52:46,580 --> 00:52:48,695
But I did all the casting for the 
actors myself,

808
00:52:48,695 --> 00:52:50,878
actually. Meaning that, 
first of all,

809
00:52:50,878 --> 00:52:54,940
I looked around and did my voice 
casting among everyone around me.

810
00:52:55,380 --> 00:52:58,502
So my daughter plays the 
hitchhiker,

811
00:52:58,502 --> 00:53:01,019
my son plays one of the actors.

812
00:53:01,060 --> 00:53:03,289
And then, I tapped into my 
building; I said, "Well, him, my

813
00:53:03,289 --> 00:53:05,588
neighbor on the first floor, 
his voice is pretty good. The

814
00:53:05,588 --> 00:53:10,208
neighbor on the ground floor 
wouldn't be bad either." And then

815
00:53:10,208 --> 00:53:12,865
there was a theater down the street 
from me, so I went to see them and

816
00:53:12,865 --> 00:53:15,428
said, "Well, would it be possible 
to lend me a room to rehearse?"

817
00:53:15,430 --> 00:53:18,567
They said, "OK." Afterwards, 
I found a recording studio in the

818
00:53:18,567 --> 00:53:20,463
neighborhood; they were mostly 
rappers,

819
00:53:20,463 --> 00:53:22,629
but they had a good, 
well-soundproofed studio.

820
00:53:22,670 --> 00:53:25,440
They told me, "No, 
we've never done this before,

821
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:28,421
but yeah, go for it, 
no problem." So once I got things

822
00:53:28,421 --> 00:53:30,568
together and had my full cast, 
I said,

823
00:53:30,568 --> 00:53:33,216
"Alright, we're good, 
let's go." And so,

824
00:53:33,216 --> 00:53:35,625
off we went. So it started with, 
well,

825
00:53:35,625 --> 00:53:39,752
just like a theater troupe in the 
end—I had to put together a mini

826
00:53:39,752 --> 00:53:43,022
theater troupe and then start all 
the rehearsals,

827
00:53:43,022 --> 00:53:45,590
to show up at the studio ready, 
you know.

828
00:53:45,630 --> 00:53:49,646
So everyone had their script, 
and I had them rehearse as we went

829
00:53:49,646 --> 00:53:53,805
along. And the hardest part—I was 
chatting at lunchtime with Olivier

830
00:53:53,805 --> 00:53:57,115
who's here in the room about 
this—the hardest part is keeping

831
00:53:57,115 --> 00:53:59,190
everyone on board over time, 
you know.

832
00:53:59,190 --> 00:54:01,010
It's just that, well, 
some people dropped out on me;

833
00:54:01,010 --> 00:54:03,295
that's why I took on the role of 
Aziz, because I had someone who was

834
00:54:03,295 --> 00:54:07,026
supposed to play Aziz for me. So 
it's all that work of

835
00:54:07,026 --> 00:54:11,610
coordinating and keeping everyone 
motivated.

836
00:54:11,930 --> 00:54:15,090
So I also worked with a composer, 
when it came to the music.

837
00:54:15,130 --> 00:54:18,867
So in it, there's both royalty-free 
music from a musician,

838
00:54:18,867 --> 00:54:21,613
Leonard Richter, 
who is German, with whom I

839
00:54:21,613 --> 00:54:25,275
exchanged messages and who 
authorized me to use his music

840
00:54:25,275 --> 00:54:28,480
however I wanted: 
cut it up, not necessarily use it

841
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:32,356
in full. And then work with a 
composer who works with the

842
00:54:32,356 --> 00:54:36,440
illustrator, the work with my son 
as a graphic designer too,

843
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:41,010
well, who created the visual world 
and the animation of the images.

844
00:54:41,890 --> 00:54:46,089
So, yeah, it's a massive, 
massive coordination of everyone.

845
00:54:46,610 --> 00:54:49,472
And then, yeah, thinking about the 
adaptations and how to keep it

846
00:54:49,472 --> 00:54:51,168
alive afterwards, 
so meaning that...

847
00:54:51,170 --> 00:54:53,591
In any case, in any podcaster's 
work,

848
00:54:53,591 --> 00:54:57,808
you're the one carrying it—we are 
the ones carrying the project.

849
00:54:57,850 --> 00:54:59,895
It's only us, so if we don't carry 
it every day,

850
00:54:59,895 --> 00:55:01,887
if we don't talk about it around us 
every day,

851
00:55:01,887 --> 00:55:03,502
if we don't think about it every 
day,

852
00:55:03,502 --> 00:55:04,900
it just can't survive, 
really.

853
00:55:04,940 --> 00:55:09,105
So in a way, we're the primary 
salespeople for our

854
00:55:09,105 --> 00:55:12,457
projects, the primary 
communicators,

855
00:55:12,457 --> 00:55:14,180
so it's exhausting.

856
00:55:14,420 --> 00:55:17,603
Especially when you work, 
when you have the chance to work on

857
00:55:17,603 --> 00:55:18,620
the side, you know.

858
00:55:18,660 --> 00:55:22,552
But yeah, it's every weekend, 
it's also all the sound work,

859
00:55:22,552 --> 00:55:24,538
the sound design and staging.

860
00:55:24,660 --> 00:55:28,100
All the sounds are sounds that I 
prepared.

861
00:55:28,100 --> 00:55:31,093
It was very similar to what you 
were describing about the technical

862
00:55:31,093 --> 00:55:34,138
work, where you'd propose something 
and do those back-and-forths.

863
00:55:34,180 --> 00:55:37,267
So what I did was build all my 
characters,

864
00:55:37,267 --> 00:55:39,899
all the voices, and all the sounds.

865
00:55:40,380 --> 00:55:42,377
So I spent hours—the slightest 
sound,

866
00:55:42,377 --> 00:55:45,373
even... the hardest part for me had 
been finding snoring,

867
00:55:45,373 --> 00:55:46,620
for instance, you know.

868
00:55:46,780 --> 00:55:50,222
So, barracks, so that we'd 
have—we'd hear snoring in the

869
00:55:50,222 --> 00:55:51,540
background, you see.

870
00:55:51,820 --> 00:55:55,228
I found snoring sounds, 
and the sounds I couldn't find,

871
00:55:55,228 --> 00:55:56,338
well, I made them.

872
00:55:56,380 --> 00:55:58,546
So for instance the tunnel, 
with my son,

873
00:55:58,546 --> 00:56:01,566
we went down to my basement and I 
had him crawl like that,

874
00:56:01,566 --> 00:56:03,140
and I recorded him, 
you know.

875
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:05,594
So, to get those sounds of...

876
00:56:05,594 --> 00:56:08,942
yeah, so I wanted something 
immersive,

877
00:56:08,942 --> 00:56:12,797
I really wanted the sound to create 
the image.

878
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:17,063
I gave you a few visuals, 
but I didn't want to give you all

879
00:56:17,063 --> 00:56:19,763
the visuals. Right, 
it's...

880
00:56:19,763 --> 00:56:22,538
for me, it has to trigger that.

881
00:56:22,538 --> 00:56:24,758
It has to pull us into it.

882
00:56:24,758 --> 00:56:29,753
That's the example of sound-image: 
you hear a buzzer,

883
00:56:29,753 --> 00:56:34,304
and someone tells you, 
"Come up, it's on the third

884
00:56:34,304 --> 00:56:38,657
floor." Just with that, 
we understand that one person is

885
00:56:38,657 --> 00:56:41,246
outside, another is inside on the 
third floor,

886
00:56:41,246 --> 00:56:43,901
so that's it—I have the image, 
I have a building,

887
00:56:43,901 --> 00:56:45,160
and there are two of us.

888
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:48,376
So there we have both characters, 
we have the situation. So for me,

889
00:56:48,376 --> 00:56:51,538
the sound has to bring that image 
too,

890
00:56:51,538 --> 00:56:52,558
that world.

891
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:54,959
Thank you very much Abderrazak, 
it was great!